M9M or M246

[Likaleica]

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On 9/25/2024 at 11:28 AM, Dazzajl said:

Getting quite pouty now. Since I decided that the M9M was the camera I want, one has been for sale in the U.K.  Yup. Just one!!

And that one was sold while I was on hold waiting for a chap to check the sensor version for me. Ho hum. ☹️

It's the Universe telling you to get the M10M

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[Olaf_ZG]

25 minutes ago, Quarterpounder said:

The older sensor is said to make better colours, more film-like.

Colours on a monochrom…

[shirubadanieru]

There’s literally no colors in the sensor lol 

Anyway, I digress, 100% get the M9M. The M246 only has slight ISO advantage, but it’s a fatter camera, and does not have the magic the M9M has in terms of rendering. The only real choice is between M9M and M10M/M11M, mostly because the gap in ISO performance is huge.

Since I mostly shoot during the day, M9M ISO is more than enough, and rendering wise I do prefer the M9M over the M10M/M11M, which is the most important factor for me. You can also still find new batteries for sale, so it’s no issue to use it for a coupe more years until Leica launches the M12 or M13 series

[LocalHero1953]

6 minutes ago, Quarterpounder said:

M240: 139x80x42 millimeters – M9: 140x80x38 millimeters – M6: 138x77x38 millimeters. The M240 is 0.15748 inches thicker than the M9 and M6.  

Are you a time traveller from 2012? That's when we last had this argument🙂.

[costa43]

2 hours ago, Quarterpounder said:

The older sensor is said to make better colours, more film-like.

I like the m9m sensor the most too but it’s more to do with its lower dynamic range, it gives a great look hard to replicate in post. It’s the same with the colour equivalents of that gen. In good light, the ccd is king still😁

Edited October 19, 2024 by costa43

[Dazzajl]

From what I can see in shots from both cameras, the CCD sensor definitely has its own look and I do prefer it. The 246 does also produce wonderful files, they’re just an inherently a little more modern looking than the more compressed tonality of the M9M. The problem is that M9Ms are more than thin on the ground right now and after several months on the hunt, it is getting a bit tedious. Whereas there are some great looking 246s out there at reasonable* prices right now. 
 

*For a Leica, obviously. 

[shirubadanieru]

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22 hours ago, Dazzajl said:

From what I can see in shots from both cameras, the CCD sensor definitely has its own look and I do prefer it. The 246 does also produce wonderful files, they’re just an inherently a little more modern looking than the more compressed tonality of the M9M. The problem is that M9Ms are more than thin on the ground right now and after several months on the hunt, it is getting a bit tedious. Whereas there are some great looking 246s out there at reasonable* prices right now. 
 

*For a Leica, obviously. 

I have a mint one with 3k actuations with box that I can sell (love it so much I have two bodies but don't mind parting with one, dm me if you wanna know more)

[Dazzajl]

Thank you to every single person who has taken the time to join in the discussion on this thread. Especially to Daniel above, who offered to sell me an M9M, sadly that didn't quite line up. 

So after chasing and losing out on a few cameras, I decided to go for a Type 246. 24 hours in and I think this has been a case of 'I didn't get what what I wanted but I got what I needed'. It's been a very long time since I've climbed any real sort of learning curve in the photography world but this is definitely one and that in itself is exciting. The M9M has a look that doesn't really exist in any other camera but processing will get you a lot of way there and the capabilities and therefore hit rate of the 246 are definitely higher. And it's a delight to shoot with. 

I've assembled a bit of a motley crew of vintage design and actual vintage lenses and I'm loving what I've seen so far. By far the most impressive is this shot, taken through an ancient Voightlander 75mm f1.8 and at 125000 ISO. No noise reduction or sharpening applied here, that has amazed me!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

A random selection of test shots shows a future with lots of lovely tones to play with

 

[a.noctilux]

On 10/24/2024 at 9:58 PM, Dazzajl said:

So after chasing and losing out on a few cameras, I decided to go for a Type 246. 24 hours in and I think this has been a case of 'I didn't get what what I wanted but I got what I needed'

Good move !

...

On 10/24/2024 at 9:58 PM, Dazzajl said:

and at 125000 ISO

That is 125k ISO !

How do you set this in M246 ?

I think you use 12.5k ISO ...

...one zero more (or less) don't do any harm to the pictures.

[Dazzajl]

48 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

I think you use 12.5k ISO ...

I  was testing to see who was paying attention

[DadDadDaddyo]

They often say the best camera is one you have with you. 

I think the best camera is one you *use*. 

Use the heck out of that M246! You'll never regret it. 

[Kiwimac]

I ended up here (somewhat after the fact) because I’m vaguely interested (in the same way an addict is vaguely interested..!) in returning to the M fold after a slight Hasselblad deviation. 
 

Monochrom cameras are rare second hand in New Zealand. Probably they sold very few given only 5 million people live here and the percentage of those prepared to pay Leica for a black and white camera will be very very small. 
 

Annoyingly, I was actually offered the last new M10M in the country about 2 years ago at a very keen price. I said no. 
 

There are two Monochrom cameras available here at the moment. One is the original M9 with  a sensor ID of 53 which I believe means it’s been replaced. The camera hasi 6k actuations on the clock and is in 9/10 condition from a very respectable source. It’s about the equivalent of US$3,500. 
 

The other is a more or less unused 246 that was in a collection. It was a very limited run edition with a matching 35 Summicron. The price is a bit over what an M11M costs but that includes the lens plus the fact that only 79 other cameras like it exist. 
 

The M9M is very cheap but is obviously an old camera in digital terms now. 
 

Of course the M11M is available too. I cannot find a single M10M or M10R. 
 

I’d be interested in thoughts and opinions. 

Edited May 1 by Kiwimac

[costa43]

Quite simply, unless someone just wants the lowest cost option, people in 2025 buying the M9M are doing so just because they prefer the look of the files. If you do not have a strong preference for the CCD files and you can stretch the budget a bit then it’s not the right buy imo. Budget permitting the M10M/M11M are far superior in most other metrics as is the similarly priced M246 to a lesser extent.

Edited May 1 by costa43

[sometimesmaybe]

On 5/1/2025 at 3:08 PM, Kiwimac said:

Monochrom cameras are rare second hand in New Zealand

if youre ever in sydney, it's worth getting in contact with @peters_cameras on instagram (he's also on guntree and facebook). very well known private leica collector / dealer in sydney. has many leicas for sale and trade. alas he only deals in person and no shipping etc 

[RexGig0]

Seeing the image that Milan Swolfs posted on April 24th, 2025, post # 2524, in the “Monochrom 246 Images, Post Them Here” thread, is an indication that most excellent work is still being done with the M Type 246 Monochrom camera! This has affirmed, yet gain that did not err, on 2022, when I decided against upgrading to an M10 Monochrom. Instead, I acquired some really nice pre-owned Leica M lenses, the APO Summicron 75mm ASPH and Elmar-M 24mm ASPH, plus, two new “fast” Voigtlander Nokton lenses. This decision was not made lightly, because my annual income, post-2022, would be significantly lower, making it quite difficult to justify the acquisition of M cameras. (I retired in early 2018, but continued to receive the value of my unused leave, at half-pay, until early 2022.)

 

[gbt]

On 5/1/2025 at 5:08 PM, Kiwimac said:

Monochrom cameras are rare second hand in New Zealand. Probably they sold very few given only 5 million people live here and the percentage of those prepared to pay Leica for a black and white camera will be very very small.

Indeed, P&V in Christchurch have an original M Monochrom for just under 6k currently, however I just picked up a typ246 from the common NZ auction site for that price, they are around, but I agree people find it hard to shift them.

[ramarren]

I hear about this "special look" that the  M9 and M9M have over everything else. Well, I've had the M9, and the M240, and the M262, and now the M10-M and M10-R. 

I don't see it. 

I guess if you capture in JPEG mode, okay. I hated the M9 JPEGs out of camera, all off-color to my eyes, and turned that off within the first 100 exposures and never turned it on again. I never turned on the JPEG mode in any of the others. I capture raw and process with LR ... I have LR set up with the default processing that looks good to my eye. A couple of minor per-exposure tweaks. Done. 

The M10-M and M10-R are so good, to my eye, that I've been and remain uninterested in the M11. All the previous digital Ms are long gone too. I'll be shooting with these two for a long while to come.  Presuming I survive for a long while yet, of course.  

G

[Dazzajl]

15 minutes ago, ramarren said:

Presuming I survive for a long while yet, of course.

 I deeply hope that you do! 
 

I am definitely in that camp that prefers the look of the M8/9 generation. I don’t think that the cameras have any magic pixie dust or anything. I think it’s simply that the more sensor tech evolves to have higher bit depth, more pixels, higher dynamic range and filters that dull the images less etc, the less they appeal to my eye.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ramarren]

Why would 'more dynamic range, more bit depth, more pixels, and more filters (?)" necessarily "dull the images less etc" (? whatever that means)? The whole point of those improvement is to provide sharper, more detailed, richer images with greater dynamic range and tonal qualities.

?? 

G

Edited June 12 by ramarren

[Dazzajl]

19 minutes ago, ramarren said:

Why would 'more dynamic range, more bit depth, more pixels, and more filters (?)" necessarily "dull the images less etc" (? whatever that means)? The whole point of those improvement is to provide sharper, more detailed, richer images with greater dynamic range and tonal qualities.

?? 

G

That’s a great question and any answer can’t be right, just a personal perspective. 
 

Take a look at this shot, posted here today. 
 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/422086-hurried-exit/#comment-5816620

 By just about any qualitative measure, it’s a disaster but I love it. It’s a very extreme example of liking a lower quality and I’m not even saying I don’t love crisp and detailed images too but there is definitely something in this looks that speaks to me