Expired Color Film Saga

[TomB_tx]

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When I again got serious about photography after retiring in 2009, I collected several different film cameras when they were cheap and available. I’d clean them up and shoot a test roll of cheap Fuji color print and have it processed and scanned by one of the many cheap 1-hr photo places around to check the condition. Soon much film began to be discontinued, so I bought up quite a collection of different films, especially color print and slide, including some lots that were already past date. Most went into a freezer, but many kept out for use. The local photo labs all disappeared, so in the meantime I focused film cameras on B&W film which I’ve been processing for decades, and used M9 & 10 for color, but missed the charm of color film.

Early this year I took one roll of color print from room-temp storage, shot it on R8 and sent it off for processing. Results were unusable: muddy grey images with no color. By then new film was expensive, and processing more so, especially considering postage ($10 each way plus processing). I needed to find out what film was still usable without wasting more cash when results were bad. I decided to get back into home processing color after a 50 year lag. I considered a Jobo system and even the Filmomat, but with my retired budget and no guarantee of results (or how long I’ll live) neither looked feasible. Then Freestyle announced the new AGO processor that would be shipping in July for under $500 USD. I’ll write another post about it for any interested, but having used it now for several batches of C41 I’ll just say it solved my problem.

Films and results:

Films I’ve tried include Kodak Gold 200 (bought a bunch past date and froze), Portra 400, Ektar 100, Portra 800, Fujifilm 200 & 400.  Also added a new roll of Harman Phoenix out of curiosity. (Will be doing slide films next.) Dates went back to 2013 (room temperature), 2014-15 (both room & frozen).

I shot all at box speed (most on DX code with M7 & R7&8). For processing I used the AGO with Cinestill C41 kit, no adjustment for age, etc. Then I scanned with an Epson V850 and Epson Scan at nominal automatic settings. Of course the scanner would attempt to adjust for results, but most labs would do the same on scanning.

As a check on processing I first tried a frozen roll of Gold 200 as it should have minimal change. The results looked as good as I’d expect with new film and commercial processing. In fact it gave me new appreciation for Kodak Gold, where I had preferred Ektar and Portra.

As I processed more rolls I’d adjust the development time for used developer per Cinestill instructions (+2% per used roll). The AGO processor also adjusts time based on temperature changes as the tank cools during development.

End result: I quit worrying about expiration dates! Color and exposure differences were minimal, and as expected for the film types. (Ektar bright & saturated with ruddy skin tones, Portra a bit muted and pleasing, Fuji looked like … Fuji.)

The only outlier was Phoenix, as the film doesn’t use the orange base like other print films and the scanner on automatic varied greatly. Adjacent shots might have one dark and muted and the next nice bright color. So just a prototype film that needs either custom scanner settings or wait for the next generation from Harman. Right now not worth my time to experiment more.

I’ll not bother posting images as these were just around-the-house-and-yard snaps to use up film while the chemistry was good.

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[lincoln_m]

I keep my film in a Tupperware box in the fridge. In January this year I decided to try a Portra 400 Nc that had been in the fridge for 15 years. I heard that one should overexpose by 1 stop per decade of out of dateness (but that might be for room temp storage) so I exposed at iso160. The results were surprisingly good. But as Portra is really for portraits it has a bias to brown/orange/skin tones so was a little tricky for my landscape shots. Basically I think it didn’t really deteriorate after 15 years in the fridge and exposure at ISO200 would have been fine.

After recently taking Kodak Portra400 and Kodak Pro Image 100 through airport CT X-ray scanners I think a guide is 0.5 stop overexposure per XRay scanner for Portra 400 and maybe less for Pro Image 100 because it’s slower less susceptible , so maybe +0.3 per XRay. It’s a bit tricky when most shots on Pro Image were in bright beach sunlight and a further half stop was often needed to avoid underexposing the bright beach scenes.

with these Kodak films there does seem to be a noticeable colour shift with a +/- 0.5 stop exposure difference.

Out of date film, airport X-rays old Leica cameras all make for adventurous exposure guesswork. But currently I feel that +/-1 stop of exposure error can ruin a shot more than old (fridge) film or airport scanners do.

kodak Pro Image 100 did seem to handle the heat and humidity (as it said on the tin) much better than Fuji Provia did in the past (heat gave a magenta cast). 
 

keep film in the fridge and apply a little bit of overexposure 0.5-1.0 stops(for C41 colour negative) seems to work.

Slide film is difficult because overexposure isn’t its friend so maybe only rate it 0.5 stop slower for old film.

Unfortunately it seems necessary to bracket (0, +0.5, +1.0) the exposure of old film (so you waste 2/3 shots per scene) to guarantee a good exposure when using these unknown variables of age and X-rays.

[BWColor]

I was developing my own B&W & color until 2009, or so.  I have a couple of  Jobo, a few scanners and hundreds of rolls of film which have been in their own freezer since 2009.   I was about to go on my first extended vacation since Women’s World Cup in France.. and that was pre-Covid.  I decided to revisit film and wow, have things changed.  I decided to shoot a roll of Portra 160 (35mm) from the freezer.  I sent it off for development and high resolution Tiff scans.  That was a bit less than $50 and over two weeks to get the file downloads.  The images were quite good out of my old M3, but the process was too much.  I’m at the point of deciding if I want to shoot 35mm, 645 and 6x7 film, or just sell everything, including a couple of Jobos and a few scanners.  I decided to start selling.  I got rid of all my digital cameras and most of my lenses.  I haven’t started to sell film cameras, but I promised my wife that I would fund all new purchases by selling.   I can’t think of a single reason to stay with film, except for liking the process.  I think that this includes a wet darkroom.   If you are going to end up digitizing the film then why not just find a digital camera to your liking?   For those that shoot film, there must be some sort of psychological attachment to the process.  I need to sell all of my film equipment to pay for my new cameras and I keep finding reasons to delay selling everything.  

[TomB_tx]

3 hours ago, lincoln_m said:

I keep my film in a Tupperware box in the fridge. In January this year I decided to try a Portra 400 Nc that had been in the fridge for 15 years. I heard that one should overexpose by 1 stop per decade of out of dateness (but that might be for room temp storage) so I exposed at iso160. The results were surprisingly good. But as Portra is really for portraits it has a bias to brown/orange/skin tones so was a little tricky for my landscape shots. Basically I think it didn’t really deteriorate after 15 years in the fridge and exposure at ISO200 would have been fine.

After recently taking Kodak Portra400 and Kodak Pro Image 100 through airport CT X-ray scanners I think a guide is 0.5 stop overexposure per XRay scanner for Portra 400 and maybe less for Pro Image 100 because it’s slower less susceptible , so maybe +0.3 per XRay. It’s a bit tricky when most shots on Pro Image were in bright beach sunlight and a further half stop was often needed to avoid underexposing the bright beach scenes.

with these Kodak films there does seem to be a noticeable colour shift with a +/- 0.5 stop exposure difference.

Out of date film, airport X-rays old Leica cameras all make for adventurous exposure guesswork. But currently I feel that +/-1 stop of exposure error can ruin a shot more than old (fridge) film or airport scanners do.

kodak Pro Image 100 did seem to handle the heat and humidity (as it said on the tin) much better than Fuji Provia did in the past (heat gave a magenta cast). 
 

keep film in the fridge and apply a little bit of overexposure 0.5-1.0 stops(for C41 colour negative) seems to work.

Slide film is difficult because overexposure isn’t its friend so maybe only rate it 0.5 stop slower for old film.

Unfortunately it seems necessary to bracket (0, +0.5, +1.0) the exposure of old film (so you waste 2/3 shots per scene) to guarantee a good exposure when using these unknown variables of age and X-rays.

Good points. I'm probably not as critical of exposure and color shifts as most, and I think the latitude of color negative is such that I found no changes needed for expired film in my trial. The nominal scans I did looked fine for me. I used to shoot only slide film and would make prints up to 16x20 from those, but I've changed with time and just shoot for enjoyment and memories now. So being able to use my stock of expired film without hassle is a plus for me.

[TomB_tx]

40 minutes ago, BWColor said:

I can’t think of a single reason to stay with film, except for liking the process.  I think that this includes a wet darkroom.   If you are going to end up digitizing the film then why not just find a digital camera to your liking?

I agree with your thinking and feelings, and since I can use M7 & M10 interchangeably they are about the same, proving your point. But I still find color film images have a different character that I like, even when digitized. No argument that my M10 results are technically better, but I've shot film Ms since the 1960s and just enjoy the process more.

I've been shooting 6x6 & 6x7 a lot more lately, even adding a Fuji GF670 rangefinder that is darn M7-like to use, and used it for the Porta 800 in my tests, where the ISO is handy with the fixed f3.5 lens. I still get better results with my Pentax 6x7 or Hasselblad 500, but like using RF more. The GF670 is so quiet that people don't jump with each shot like with the others.

[lincoln_m]

I too have M10, M7, MP and M2. My M7 shutter only works on the manual, 60,125 settings the meter is OK but not the electronic shutter. It worked ok after its second trip to Wetzlar but then failed a few years later and now is basically in shutter priority mode. I used to love Provia 100 but it doesn’t seem to be available anymore.
As you say the M10 files are technically better than film M shots but I now find I need to add some grain effect in Lightroom and boost the red/purples to give the Provia/Velvia look. The fine grain of Provia and now Ektar or ProImage from Kodak print film just seems more real to me. But film purchase/development is an expensive hobby when compared to a 32GB SD card that can hold approximately 50 x 36 shots worth (and is reusable).

There is also something to be said in keeping my local processing lab going with my handful of films a year but that’s probably not enough. 

[TomB_tx]

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1 hour ago, lincoln_m said:

There is also something to be said in keeping my local processing lab going with my handful of films a year but that’s probably not enough

Yes, supporting local photo businesses is important - if you live where there are some.

FYI - my trial with the AGO processing system is here: