on the fence with M11-P

[Kiwimac]

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You can soon determine if the issue is a technical one or a technique one. 
 

Take some images focusing using the rear screen or the EVF if you have it. Then take the same images using the rangefinder. 
 

Sometimes it’s lens related. I can get sharp images at f2 using my Apo Summicron 75 using either the EVF or rear screen. I simply cannot do so by eye using the range finder. I must increase the aperture so DoF is more forgiving. 
 

The M11 can certainly shoot images of great sharpness. Whether it will do so in your personal circumstances is of course something only you can decide. 
 

I’ve not found issues 50mm and wider hand held  as long as the shutter speed is sufficiently fast. 

[brickftl]

57 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

You can soon determine if the issue is a technical one or a technique one. 
 

Take some images focusing using the rear screen or the EVF if you have it. Then take the same images using the rangefinder. 
 

Sometimes it’s lens related. I can get sharp images at f2 using my Apo Summicron 75 using either the EVF or rear screen. I simply cannot do so by eye using the range finder. I must increase the aperture so DoF is more forgiving. 
 

The M11 can certainly shoot images of great sharpness. Whether it will do so in your personal circumstances is of course something only you can decide. 
 

I’ve not found issues 50mm and wider hand held  as long as the shutter speed is sufficiently fast. 

thanks, I did further testing with my 50/1.4 lux ASPH and Voigt 21/1.5 nokton, both wide open and stopped down. This time I increased magnification of images using the rear screen and absolutely nailed focus, so the camera is fine thank goodness. 

Final decision: my M11-P is a keeper.

Edited July 31, 2024 by brickftl

[Knorp]

5 minutes ago, brickftl said:

thanks, I did further testing with my 50/1.4 lux ASPH and Voigt 21/1.5 nokton, both wide open and stopped down. This time I increased magnification of images using the rear screen and absolutely nailed focus, so the camera is fine thank goodness. 

Final decision: my M11-P is a keeper.

Hurrah !

[Mr. Protocol]

I own an M11-P as well as a Sony A7Rv, which the same sensor, as far as anyone can tell.  I value the high pixel density because, more than occasionally, I find it desirable to crop like crazy, and 60mp lets me do that.  Print size doesn't enter into it for me.  And since only the wealthy can afford to cover the entire range of Leica prime lenses (I limited myself to three), the ability to crop is even more desirable.

[brickftl]

just to put an ending on this thread, I'm taking more care shooting with my M11-P and very happy with the images. 

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[hellobrandonscott]

On 7/31/2024 at 7:01 AM, brickftl said:

I re-looked at the images I shot with my M10, and I think the problem I'm seeing with M11-P is simply because the farmer's market where I shot went to a shadier location plus I began shooting at 1/500 which upped the ISO significantly resulting in less sharp images. 

I appreciate everyone weighing in, and think I just need to adjust how I'm shooting, and also my expectations when shooting high(er) ISO images. 

Really, the M11-P is a lovely camera with improvements over the M10, so I'm going to hold on to it and use it much more to be able to become auto pilot when using it.

 

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Oh man, if you're using that 35SR and basing sharpness off of that, it could be part of your problem. I gave that lens a solid attempt and it was so difficult to achieve anything as sharp as the sharpness you're after: https://brandonscottphoto.co/gear/leica-35mm-summilux-m-steel-rim-reissue-review/

Beautiful lens, but definitely more of an ethereal, aura lens more than something to reference sharpness off of. 

Hope that helps OP! M10 or M11, can't go wrong

[ashree]

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On 7/31/2024 at 7:44 AM, brickftl said:

thanks for all the above, food for thought. I almost never print, and instead just share images online.

My challenge has been that I'm primarily a street shooter, often shooting moving people. But still I think I just need to slow my process a bit, be more cognizant of keeping steady hands (I don't have hands that shake so that's a good thing) and increase shutter speed as needed. 

I haven't tried lowering resolution to 36MP, so I'll give that a try and see how it affects my images. 

Or wait for Leica to introduce a M10 with same shutter sound, battery, waterproofing as the M11-P 

I’d like to add in favor of switching to 36MP. My keeper rate of images were sharper compared to when I was using the 60MP setting while I had my M11 Silver and I almost exclusively shoot wide open only using the rangefinder (F1.4 on the newest 35mm Summilux).

I also want to add that after trading in the brass body for the lighter M11-P Black that right away I noticed more keepers using similar settings than before without changing any habits. I can shoot between 1/60-1/125 now as well whereas with the silver brass body I needed to shoot at 1/125 when shooting at 1.4.

[jaapv]

That is when you are looking at your image at 100%. 60 MP is magnified considerably more than 36 MP which shows up the flaws, which are the same at both resolutions. 

[brickftl]

6 hours ago, hellobrandonscott said:

Oh man, if you're using that 35SR and basing sharpness off of that, it could be part of your problem. I gave that lens a solid attempt and it was so difficult to achieve anything as sharp as the sharpness you're after: https://brandonscottphoto.co/gear/leica-35mm-summilux-m-steel-rim-reissue-review/

Beautiful lens, but definitely more of an ethereal, aura lens more than something to reference sharpness off of. 

Hope that helps OP! M10 or M11, can't go wrong

actually I find that the 35/1.4 SRR is plenty sharp when stopped down past f2, and I'm totally obsessed with the look of the lens wide open. 

My new almost favorite lens I just got is the Voigt 28/1.5, and that's the lens I used for the last pics I posted to demonstrate that I'm doing fine with sharpness. I just have to adjust my shooting and habits to accommodate the M11-P, different from how I use my M10.

[MikeW]

Q: Are you finding an apparent sharpness difference between in-camera jpg files and your processed DNG files? If so, you may need to tweak the sharpening in Lightroom or whatever you use for post-processing. The LR sharpening default of 40 may not be sufficient.

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 f8, 1/500 and (auto) ISO 1250. 

Maybe related or just a one-off auto ISO oddity but for a 21mm lens, 1/500 seems excessive. The high shutter speed (relative to focal length) has pushed your ISO high enough to introduce noise, contributing to a perception of reduced image acuity.

 

[Josh Rainey]

I've been switching between 18, 36 and 60 regularly (sometimes by accident). I just can't see how I'm going to see a difference in blur between the sizes. I don't punch in, and my highest res monitor is 6k, and my most color accurate is 4k. 

I'll continue to shoot 60mp for anything serious, and shoot 18mp for family stuff. 

Back to the newb realizations: 

I've been working on shooting manual and hadn't noticed before how the shutter speed dial works with your "trigger finger". So nice to dial things in. Duh.

I'm using highlight weighted in A priority.

For manual, I like spot, then I can meter off the highlight and then bump the exposure up 1.5 to 2 stops from there. That usually keeps it out of clipping mode (except for specular which is fine to clip).

I do wish you could add exposure compensation on your previews. As I think shooting at 64 ISO and underexposing might give the best DR, versus bumping the ISO to get the "correct" exposure. So I could shoot 2 stops under, but the preview shows me it "push" to stops back up. But the underlying data is there. But with clipping blinkies and the histogram I'm able to more or less make sure I'm getting what I need on the "negative".

I plan to do a complete over/under cinema camera style test when I'm back home in a week or so. 

Still love the camera. I did have a file write issue, with no SD card in the cam. Not too worried about it.

Now that I'm getting a hang of exposure, I'm starting to pine for a M11-D...