I sold my GFX100s for SL3, but now I want M11-P

[KenLW]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I sold my GFX100s today to fund an SL3 because I already have a Hasselblad 907x for my digital medium format needs for landscape, portraits, and travel. I also recently sold my Sony A7RV because I haven't used it much since acquiring the GFX100s and Hasselblad, and I've never liked the Sony colors.

I've been a Leica M user for a while. I currently own an M6 and an MP, along with a few modern and vintage M lenses. I previously had an M10 but gave it to my partner earlier this year. I can still use it occasionally, but we can't use it at the same time.

Initially, I thought getting an SL3 and adapting M lenses, along with a few Leica SL prime lenses, would provide image quality similar to the GFX100s and surpass the A7RV, while being a Leica, which I find more inspiring. Additionally, the L mount offers affordable zoom options like the new LUMIX 28-200 and Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 II which would be very nice for travel. The SL system is also water and dust resistant, which none of my other cameras are.

However, in terms of photography experience, especially for street photography while traveling, no digital camera can compete with the M system. I’ve used the M10 most often and have gotten the most pleasing photos from it. Therefore, I do miss a digital M body. And since I have the funds and want USB-C charging, the M11 or M11-P is the way to go. Owning a digital M is about more than image quality, but it also means that for day-to-day picture quality, the M11 is as good as the A7RV and SL3, although technically, the SL 35 APO is much better than any M lenses, including the 35 APO M.

If I go ahead and purchase the M11-P, I have a few concerns:

1. I still need a camera with water and dust resistance.
2. I prefer the M rangefinder system for most of my use cases, but when traveling, I still want access to autofocus lenses for portraits.
3. I want to use zoom lenses like the 28-200 for landscape or city walks.

Buying the SL3 seems like a more logical choice to address these concerns. Alternatively, I could solve my concerns with the M11-P plus another camera system. For this reason, I'm also considering expanding my collection of Fuji XF lenses and system. The Fuji XF system is relatively cheap and well-built, making it suitable for rugged conditions. I could also invest further in my Hasselblad system by getting the XCD 35-75 zoom, but the 907x is very prone to dust and probably wouldn't do well in the rain either.

What are your thoughts? I know this is another G.A.S. post, but since I've sold both my GFX100s and A7RV, I feel justified in making another purchase. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Mute-on]

M11 for digital + used SL2(S) + Sigma 24-70/2.8 II. Done.

Leave Fuji alone. As you have indicated, it doesn’t inspire you like Leica. 

[KenLW]

14 minutes ago, Mute-on said:

M11 for digital + used SL2(S) + Sigma 24-70/2.8 II

Such a great and concise suggestion! I did consider the SL2s but forgot about it 😅 The SL2(s) system is more than capable of handling my traveling needs!

Edited July 22, 2024 by KenLW

[Mute-on]

The SL2-S combination is exactly what I intend to purchase when I have funds, since I already have a digital M (262). 

[KenLW]

16 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

M11 is very close to those Sony colors you do not like.

I have reviewed quite a few M11 sample images online. Although the M11 shares the same sensor, its images look much better straight out of the camera, assuming you fix the magenta shift issue. Just curious, have you seen a straight-out-of-camera RAW photo from an A7RV? It tends to be very toned down and requires lots of editing. This isn't to say Sony has bad colors; with some adjustments to the red, yellow, and blue, the images can look good. However, I don't want to make those adjustments for every photo. On the other hand, the out-of-camera colors from the M10 are always quite pleasing and usually I just need to bring up some shadows. I think the M11 sits somewhere between the M10 and A7RV in terms of colors but you may have more experience with the M11 or A7RV so I will trust your judgement on this.

To demonstrate my point, here is one of my AR7V raw images before editing

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

And you can make it closer to Leica colors by doing some grading (I am still learning how to do this better). I would imagine for a M11 photo, you do not need to do this much of adjustments to the color in post.

Edited July 22, 2024 by KenLW

[KenLW]

6 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

workflow game to get the colors right

Yeah, I am just revisiting photos I took with my Sony to see if I get them to look like Leica better. I feel like I am getting there. (Just edited the post above with some samples). My hope is with M11, I don't need to do this much of adjustment and have a better basis to work on.

[WvE]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'm replacing my M10-P with an MP (I just love film better than digital nowadays), but I'll keep my SL2-s with the adaptor and the wonderful Lumix 20-60mm (perfect for travels).    

[vkdev]

7 hours ago, Mute-on said:

M11 for digital + used SL2(S) + Sigma 24-70/2.8 II. Done.

Leave Fuji alone. As you have indicated, it doesn’t inspire you like Leica. 

This is great advice. But just keep in mind that in the future KenLW will might want to get the same resolution and color as on the m11. And in this case will have to buy SL3. But that will happen much later. Perhaps.

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, KenLW said:

I have reviewed quite a few M11 sample images online. Although the M11 shares the same sensor, its images look much better straight out of the camera, assuming you fix the magenta shift issue. Just curious, have you seen a straight-out-of-camera RAW photo from an A7RV? It tends to be very toned down and requires lots of editing. This isn't to say Sony has bad colors; with some adjustments to the red, yellow, and blue, the images can look good. However, I don't want to make those adjustments for every photo. On the other hand, the out-of-camera colors from the M10 are always quite pleasing and usually I just need to bring up some shadows. I think the M11 sits somewhere between the M10 and A7RV in terms of colors but you may have more experience with the M11 or A7RV so I will trust your judgement on this.

To demonstrate my point, here is one of my AR7V raw images before editing

 

And you can make it closer to Leica colors by doing some grading (I am still learning how to do this better). I would imagine for a M11 photo, you do not need to do this much of adjustments to the color in post.

Basic digital colour is created by the specification of the Bayer filter. In this respect the brand of the underlying sensor is wholly irrelevant as it is a monochrome device. You are seeing the difference in Bayer filters, which are brand and camera type - specific. So no, a Leica-specified Sony sensor assembly in a Leica has a different basic color output than a Sony sensor assembly in a Sony camera, and then there is the whole processing pipeline which creates the colours you see on your monitor. A sensor is not a slide film.

[hdmesa]

10 hours ago, vkdev said:

This is great advice. But just keep in mind that in the future KenLW will might want to get the same resolution and color as on the m11. And in this case will have to buy SL3. But that will happen much later. Perhaps.

The profiles in C1 or LR often make more difference to the default color than the sensors. SL2-S color is extremely close to the M11 if using M lenses on both. 

[BWColor]

Over the last three months I’ve sold many cameras and lenses from Canon and Sony to fund the purchase of an M11 Monochrome and Hasselblad X2D.  My goal was to fit all travel equipment in a sling bad that qualified as a purse on international flights.  I just got back from three very wet weeks in Korea and am very happy with my equipment.  I had a Sony A7, A7r, A7Riii, A7Riv, A7Rv and A9.  Along with this I had a dozen lenses, including two that managed 400mm and two f/1.4.  These are very capable cameras and lenses.  I no longer shot sports, birds, or fast moving events and I missed the days of M3…. In other words, I didn’t want another big heavy system.  I especially didn’t want a system bigger and heavier than my Sony gear.

The M11M was unbelievably good, but I only used one camera a day and only took a 21mm f/4.5 and 35mm APO Lanthar.  The 21 with the red filter spent most of the time on the M11M, but the X2D/38v was used on days when there were heavy rains.  My photography did not distract from my vacation. I’m happy using the X2D for color and the Leica for black-and-white.  BTW. the Voigtlander lens is incredible, but I’ve never used an SL camera.

Perhaps, the elephant in the room is the size and weight of the X2D.  I found this camera and lens combination to be a reasonable size and very easy to use. I have just received (today) the 90 mm v and have the 28P on order.  The 28P lens is even smaller than 38v.

Edited July 23, 2024 by BWColor
Elephants

[KenLW]

23 hours ago, WvE said:

I'm replacing my M10-P with an MP (I just love film better than digital nowadays), but I'll keep my SL2-s with the adaptor and the wonderful Lumix 20-60mm (perfect for travels).    

MP is very nice! Ideally M10-P + MP is the dream combo but using SL2-s with the M adaptor sounds very nice too! Lumix 20-60mm is all you need for travel or maybe 28-200?

[KenLW]

21 hours ago, vkdev said:

This is great advice. But just keep in mind that in the future KenLW will might want to get the same resolution and color as on the m11. And in this case will have to buy SL3. But that will happen much later. Perhaps.

Yes, if I get the M11, I will probably buy an SL3 in a few years.

[KenLW]

21 hours ago, jaapv said:

Basic digital colour is created by the specification of the Bayer filter

Good to know! Thanks for the explanations! I believe this is also the reason why the Leica Monochrome line is unique because they don't have Bayer filters. 

[KenLW]

5 hours ago, BWColor said:

35mm APO Lanthar

I have the 50mm APO Lanthar and it is a very sharp lens! 

5 hours ago, BWColor said:

X2D/38v was used on days when there were heavy rains

I carry the 38V + 907X as my EDC. It's lighter than the X2D, though it lacks IBIS and water/dust resistance. The 28P, 38V, and 90V lenses cover most situation for you and you can always crop. With that said, while I like the Hasselblad system overall, I prefer having a telephoto lens when I travel. Therefore, I always bring at least one camera with a 28-200mm or 70-300mm lens. 

5 hours ago, BWColor said:

three very wet weeks in Korea and am very happy with my equipment

I'm glad you're happy with your current setup. Traveling to Korea made me decide to sell my Sony camera. While many people enjoy using Sony cameras for travel, it just wasn't the right fit for me. I found that my photos didn't turn out as well with the Sony. 

 

[Jon Warwick]

On 7/23/2024 at 2:43 AM, BWColor said:

I’m happy using the X2D for color and the Leica for black-and-white.  

You're not the first person that I've read saying they like this combo! 

I have an M11 and GFX100S, and am considering replacing the M11 for an M11M, and joining the "club" of medium format for color + Leica Monochrom for B&W. 

If Leica ever produces a mirrorless S4, it wouldn't surprise me if we see many more examples of medium format (color) + M Monochrom (B&W) in the future.

 

Edited July 24, 2024 by Jon Warwick

[lexffm]

You mentioned the following at the beginning:

1. I still need a camera with water and dust resistance

just because of this point, it won't work with an M

 

 

[newtoleica]

I have an M10-P and a Q2, for similar reasons that you put up. I don't have an M11, for a variety of reasons but mainly that I could afford a 10-P AND a Q2 lightly used for the price of new M11.

The M is my primary camera with 4 lenses, street etc..

The Q2 is for one lens/one camera, holidays, when it's pouring with rain, hiking, the beach etc. Perfect for that and AF too so you don't need the same concentration.

A fly in the ointment for you would be AF for portraits (not the Q strength unless you really like just environmental portraits) OR get a Q3 and crop (should be fine). Do you really need AF for portraits though? if your DOF is so shallow you need AF on eye then nose, ears etc will be OOF. Not a great look....?

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[KenLW]

1 hour ago, newtoleica said:

The Q2 is for one lens/one camera, holidays, when it's pouring with rain, hiking, the beach etc. Perfect for that and AF too so you don't need the same concentration.

I am not considering Q2 because I had the original Q but I had always used my M10 in favor of the Q so I no longer have my Leica Q. Also, the price of Q2 is still a little bit too high for me as a secondary camera. With that said, I would happy use Leica Q if I don't have any other camera. It is a very capable camera in a extremely small package. And the macro feature is just genius!

1 hour ago, newtoleica said:

Do you really need AF for portraits though?

Yes, if you don't have family members who don't stand still while I take their photos. I could get a M camera to work though but it is just not ideal. 

[KenLW]

3 hours ago, lexffm said:

You mentioned the following at the beginning:

1. I still need a camera with water and dust resistance

just because of this point, it won't work with an M

 

 

Yeah, if I get the M11, I would just get a water resistant Fujifilm XF camera such as the XT5.