Leica Rigid vs DR

[Anthony MD]

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I’m pretty sure the DR has brass construction and would assume the Rigid is made with aluminum since it’s lighter.

Is this correct…?

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Edited July 20, 2024 by Anthony MD

[Anthony MD]

But after studying the diagrams, it shows the DR having more metal than the Rigid…!

[a.noctilux]

rear view will tell the story

pictures from web

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DR above very thick dual coupling for the dual range

there is also inside some anti-focus device (linked to the adapter's ball) when in close range, the ball must be pushed down to enable focussing 0.9m to 0.48m

and Rigid, thinner coupling device

I compare them in real, I saw a bit of brass in Rigid infinity blocking groove, so same brass in the mount of the two types

[pippy]

11 hours ago, Anthony MD said:

I’m pretty sure the DR has brass construction and would assume the Rigid is made with aluminum since it’s lighter......Is this correct…?

If you do a google search for 50mm Summicron Black Paint you will find images of lenses which have worn paint-finish which show that the main body of the v2 is brass but the focussing ring is aluminium. I suspect that the same is true for the Silver-Chrome version.

Philip.

[TomB_tx]

4 hours ago, pippy said:

If you do a google search for 50mm Summicron Black Paint you will find images of lenses which have worn paint-finish which show that the main body of the v2 is brass but the focussing ring is aluminium. I suspect that the same is true for the Silver-Chrome version.

Philip.

I've had my V2 rigid apart and the focus grip ring  is clearly aluminum, but I believe in earlier production it may have been plated brass. However, this has nothing to do with the internal parts - just the part your fingers contact. The actual focusing mechanism is largely brass, as you can see just by unscrewing the optical head from the focus mount:

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It also appears that the internal lens barrel that mounts the elements may be aluminum:

In both cases I think this is just wise choice of materials.

I have both DR and normal versions and prefer the normal V2.

[Anthony MD]

Sure way of finding out if the Rigid is brass…!

Edited July 21, 2024 by Anthony MD

[pippy]

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9 minutes ago, Anthony MD said:

Sure way of finding out if the Rigid is brass…!

Sorry, Anthony, but I'm not going to waste 40 mins of my life watching that clip.

Could you please precis the story in one sentence? Brass? Aluminium? A mixture (as mentioned earlier)? That's all we need to know.

Thanks in advance.

Philip.

Edited July 21, 2024 by pippy

[Anthony MD]

1 hour ago, pippy said:

Sorry, Anthony, but I'm not going to waste 40 mins of my life watching that clip.

Could you please precis the story in one sentence? Brass? Aluminium? A mixture (as mentioned earlier)? That's all we need to know.

Thanks in advance.

Philip.

Well, there’s definitely brass in the construction …!

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Edited July 21, 2024 by Anthony MD

[a.noctilux]

Anyway, each Summicron if in great shape (no fungus, no haze, etc.) is great lens with small differences between them.

- Rigid has wider/larger focussing ring but also infinity lock (love/hate only you can say)

the good thing is this one can be used on every M for every type of picture from 1m to infinity

- the DR has shallower focus ring and no lock (or only at 90cm when pushed to close range without the close adapter)

not mountable (my discovery is focus to about 1.5m before mounting) on many digital M (for example with M262 not infinity) and stated not compatible in manuals

[Anthony MD]

5 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Anyway, each Summicron if in great shape (no fungus, no haze, etc.) is great lens with small differences between them.

- Rigid has wider/larger focussing ring but also infinity lock (love/hate only you can say)

the good thing is this one can be used on every M for every type of picture from 1m to infinity

- the DR has shallower focus ring and no lock (or only at 90cm when pushed to close range without the close adapter)

not mountable (my discovery is focus to about 1.5m before mounting) on many digital M (for example with M262 not infinity) and stated not compatible in manuals

Most of my landscape shoots are focused for infinity.  At times the focus ring does move which causes an out of focus picture.

I’m looking forward for that infinity lock…!

[Anthony MD]

5 hours ago, pippy said:

Sorry, Anthony, but I'm not going to waste 40 mins of my life watching that clip.

Could you please precis the story in one sentence? Brass? Aluminium? A mixture (as mentioned earlier)? That's all we need to know.

Thanks in advance.

Philip.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[a.noctilux]

 chrome plated brass !

for all 

[pippy]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

 chrome plated brass !

for all 

Well I never! Just when things seem to be straightforward.....

Have a look at the lenses listed here. First-off the '2. Version rigid SOSIC'; then '2 Version rigid Black Paint 11117; then the last / most expensive of the lenses shown under the '3. Version Rigid 11817' heading.

Both of the 'Version 2' lenses (SOSIC and B-P 1117) are clearly the Brass with Aluminium focus-ring sort but the '3 Version Rigid 11817' is all-aluminium. It is described as being a "11817 2/50mm Transitional Model. Very rare 6-element lens with coarse focusing knurl." Sharing a barrel-design which is very similar yet different by comparison with the well-known v2 Rigid it has an optical construction of the 1969-'79 Version 3 '6-Element';

Whole series introductory page;

https://classic.leica-camera.com/en/Leica-Systems/M-System/Lenses/Standard-Lenses/Summicron-M-2-50mm/

When we look closer at the s/chrome 'SOSIC' page we find two distinct versions; SOSIC and SOSTA. Of these the SOSTA / 11818 seems to be the earlier version - identifiable by the narrower focussing ring - and the SOSIC / 11118 with the wider ring the later version (change circa 1960 / '61?). Certainly all the serial numbers of the lenses included here would back up that scenario;

https://classic.leica-camera.com/en/Leica-Systems/M-System/Lenses/Standard-Lenses/Summicron-M-2-50mm/2.-Version-rigid-SOSIC/

Version 2 Black Paint link;

https://classic.leica-camera.com/en/Leica-Summicron-2-50mm-black-paint/33675-3

Here is the link for the v3 Summicrons, The 'Transitional' lens is featured in the second link;

https://classic.leica-camera.com/en/Leica-Systems/M-System/Lenses/Standard-Lenses/Summicron-M-2-50mm/3.-Version-11817/

https://classic.leica-camera.com/en/Leica-Summicron-11817-2-50mm-transitional-model/35018-4

I found all that information to be rather interesting!

Philip.

Edited July 22, 2024 by pippy

[a.noctilux]

Philip, that are nice findings.

 

The fascinating with Leitz/Leica is "nothing is what it seems to be", always new findings.

As user, I learned everything I need and "searching stories" is fun but as "side move".

Time to learn how to use "at best" the system (with pleasure) is more important for me other than "how and why" the system is built (material choice, number of elements, brands, etc.).

Edited July 22, 2024 by a.noctilux

[Anthony MD]

2 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Philip, that are nice findings.

 

The fascinating with Leitz/Leica is "nothing is what it seems to be", always new findings.

As user, I learned everything I need and "searching stories" is fun but as "side move".

Time to learn how to use "at best" the system (with pleasure) is more important for me other than "how and why" the system is built (material choice, number of elements, brands, etc.).

Yes, now we need to find our Leicas and use them…!

[a.noctilux]

8 minutes ago, Anthony MD said:

Yes, now we need to find our Leicas and use them…!

Now and from now on.

You had found the right M and now you need to use for a while with pleasure, nothing can beat that.

[Anthony MD]

Which filter would you recommend for the Rigid…?

[pippy]

2 hours ago, Anthony MD said:

Which filter would you recommend for the Rigid…?

What is required? The question as asked has no answer.

Philip.

[pippy]

11 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

...Time to learn how to use "at best" the system (with pleasure) is more important for me other than "how and why" the system is built (material choice, number of elements, brands, etc.)...

I'm gald to read, Arnaud, that you found the links to be interesting. On the points which you mention (as posted above) I am in complete agreement! On that topic, however, I have been spending (wastefully) a little bit of time....

The various v2 Summicrons and their differences have been well-known for a great many decades but today was the very first time I had EVER seen an example of the v3 (6 element) body with a knurled focus-ring! Apart from the ring it would be interesting to see whether there are any other constructional differences.

It has been described as a "Transitional Model. Very rare 6-element lens with coarse focusing knurl." but even so; I have to say that seeing this lens started some activity in my "Leetle Grey Cells..."...

Pretty much the only difference between the lens in question and the 'regular' v3 is the profile of the milling on the outside of the focussing-ring and the lack of a (Tiger-Claw or whatever) focus-tab. As it happens I like the focus-tab on my v4 Summicron and, in general, for lenses up to and including the 50mm f/l I am without a doubt a 'Focus-Tab-Plus-Infinity-Lock' sort of chap - but were the v4 to have a knurled focus-ring instead?.......I think I'd choose to go for a scalloped focussing-ring over the Tab.

Academic question, of course, but the possibility of there having been a missed opportunity (maybe?) will occupy some of my thoughts for a wee while....

Philip.

Edited July 22, 2024 by pippy

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Anthony MD]

1 hour ago, pippy said:

What is required? The question as asked has no answer.

Philip.

More thinking on my part…!