Does Nikon Zf outperform Leica SL (601) in manual not-M lenses?

[Zhenya]

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Hello, a newcomer is here 🙂

I was heavily engaged in amateur film photography in 2000-es and have collected a bush of film cameras/lenses but my last acquisition of photography equipment was in 2013 when I have bought a Sony A7 mostly to use it with my manual lenses. I was not very satisfied with the results comparing to film + evf was so worse comparing to ovf of my Minolta XD-7/11 so since then for digital photo I used mostly PS and my smartphone.

But couple of weeks ago YouTube recommendations showed to me a video with some new mirrorless cameras and my interest for "digital body + manual lenses" arised again.

Googling the threads on the photography forums has left my attention to the three variants of digital cameras: Panasonic Lumix S5ii, Nikon Zf and... Leica SL series, which are good for manual lens combo.

I don't like the look of Panasonic, so I choose between Nikon Zf and Leica SL now. Not SL2-s, because SL (used) and Zf (new) are in the same price tag now, but SL2-s is $1000 more expensive.

I've read several opinions that Zf has much more advantages (IBIS, low light etc) than SL, but is it really necessary to make digital photos now as my film cameras don't have any of them.

SL is old but it is Leica.

So maybe someone can give an advice about quality of pictures these cameras could give with non-Leica manual lenses. My collection is full of MD Rokkors, Zeiss Jena and some good examples of Soviet LTM lenses, but I don't have any Leica lenses (so sad).

Thanks in advance!

 

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[Malabito]

If you are lucky, you might be able to get a used sl2s for around 2.6k not that far from the price of a new ZF.

I wouldn't choose the sl over the ZF, i would go ZF. Now ZF vs Sl2s is a different story. Yes the sl2s is a bigger camera and feels perhaps more robust, but the only reasons to chose it over the zf are:

• colors, (which is subjective)
• handling, (subjective)
• leica branding, (subjective)
• m lenses performance, (this is not subjective m lenses do behave better on the sl, but if you dont have any m lenses nor are planning to use one, i wouldn't care)
• Leica SL APO lenses
• Lack AA filter, (this translates the overall results with the sl will look sharper)

Now the ZF will give you:

• possibility to use autofocus adapters, (gives autofocus capabilities to manual lenses)
• amazing autofocus, (the sl2s has so so autofocus, and the sl has terrible autofocus)
• manual assist options for focusing manual lenses, (the sl/sl2s doesn't have anything besides focus peaking), with the zf you even have eye detect with manual lenses.

I am sl2s user and i am actually thinking of getting an zf to decide with both systems which one to keep

 

[rogxwhit]

I don't think that you would have any issues with the quality of the images produced - in technical terms that is, because their aesthetic & cultural meaning as ever would be up to you (and your lenses).  You might find however that you had handling issues to do with using an evf for manual focus.  I'd recommend having a go before buying. 

There is a camera body that can be got used for half the price of a used SL, and it's the Panasonic S1 from 2019 (also L-mount), which provides quite a sweet vf experience, being as hi-res as that in the SL2 series and with very sensitive and lucid focus peaking.  A heavy lump to handle, but one of the best to use with mf lenses.  A very well-built bargain.

 

Edited July 12, 2024 by rogxwhit

[Anbaric]

If the Zf is on your list and you are not wedded to the retro design, you might also look at the Z6 III, which gives you a higher resolution EVF, an additional LCD on the top plate and (if it matters) a 6k movie mode.

[Zhenya]

20 minutes ago, Malabito said:

If you are lucky, you might be able to get a used sl2s for around 2.6k not that far from the price of a new ZF.

Yes, SL2-s is. 2.6k, but I can get Zf for 1.6-1.7k (new) or SL(601) for 1.8k. That are the RRP where I live. Is it worth to spend 1k more to get used SL2-s?

Anyway thank you for the reasons you gave!

[Zhenya]

17 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

If the Zf is on your list and you are not wedded to the retro design, you might also look at the Z6 III, which gives you a higher resolution EVF, an additional LCD on the top plate and (if it matters) a 6k movie mode.

Z6III costs 2.6k here and this is slightly above my budget. And I like the retro film look of Zf.

[Zhenya]

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29 minutes ago, rogxwhit said:

There is a camera body that can be got used for half the price of a used SL, and it's the Panasonic S1 from 2019 (also L-mount), which provides quite a sweet vf experience, being as hi-res as that in the SL2 series and with very sensitive and lucid focus peaking.  A heavy lump to handle, but one of the best to use with mf lenses.  A very well-built bargain.

 

Thank you for your opinion, but S1 is huge for my hands. Also most of my lenses as fixed focus and are not so big (some of them are really tiny) so on S1 they will look weird I guess.

[frame-it]

8 minutes ago, Zhenya said:

Z6III costs 2.6k here and this is slightly above my budget. And I like the retro film look of Zf.

go with the Zf

[Malabito]

22 minutes ago, Zhenya said:

Yes, SL2-s is. 2.6k, but I can get Zf for 1.6-1.7k (new) or SL(601) for 1.8k. That are the RRP where I live. Is it worth to spend 1k more to get used SL2-s?

Anyway thank you for the reasons you gave!

where are you located that you can find the ZF for 1.6K new? thats a great price!

[Almizilero]

I actually got caught by the Youtube hype train and ordered a Zf to test it out. Especially the subject tracking with manual lenses looked amazing. I actually took some pictures, but I knew I wouldn't keep it the moment I unpacked it. It looks really nice, but (to me) it was very uncomfortable to hold and, in comparison to any SL, it just felt cheap and flimsy. Sorry, compared to any other brand it probably is of great build, but Leica just knocks it out of the park with it's build-like-a-tank sturdiness and comfort.

So my advice would be to go to a shop and test it out before you buy! And between the cameras you have your eyes on, my vote goes to the SL2-S. It's the best SLR-type cameras I've ever used, I love to pick it up and the image quality is just outstanding! All very subjective, but for me, it's the benchmark in IQ and no other camera came close to it so far. And at the moment, prices are at an all time low, around 2.500 € used from dealers and I've even seen some go for close to 2.000 from private sellers. I don't know where you're from, but that around what I'd pay for a new Zf here (2.300 EUR). The OG SL goes for around 1.800 used and at a difference of 5-600 EUR, I'd go for the SL2-S.

[jaapv]

There is also the S5ii which might be just the right size for your hands and  is very close to the SL2S in IQ. Except for some Leica wideangles of course. 

[hlansing]

Honestly, they will all produce great images.  What do you value? That's the beauty of it all. The benefit to the Zf is that the eye-AF confirmation on manual lenses works great only if the lens is chipped like the Voigtlanders Z lenses.

If you're going for a less expensive small manual system, why not get a Kolari modified a7c? Still has IBIS, full frame, 24MP, etc.

 

 

[swj0126]

6-bit M to Z adapter such as that from TTArtisan greatly improves the MF experience in ZF (or Nikon Z).

[BernardC]

I don't think you'll find much performance difference between your two choices, at least below ISO6400. Try both out and pick the one that feels best in your hands.

I personally don't like Nikon's manual focus enhancements, I find them distracting. You might have different feelings about that. The SL has a great viewfinder with great optics, so you can focus directly on the screen, as you would with a film camera. You can also use the joystick control to zoom-in and confirm that you've hit your focus point, but you'll use it less and less as your confidence increases.

[OleBe]

I actually own both the SL2-S and the Zf. The cameras are different, but I am enjoying the Zf with Voigtländer Z lenses a lot because of the focus assist tools.

One of the biggest advantages is that you can alter any colour profile in cam and it will correctly be read in Lightroom. Whereas with the SL2-S you cannot access any of the LEICA profiles, only embedded or Adobe Standard...No idea if it is Leica or Adobe to blame, but that is quite trembling on my nerves to start editing with a different image starting point all the time.

Build quality wise, yeah the Zf is okay, but the SL2-S is in a different league. Though at least for my SL2-S copy display and EVF do not match at all colour wise. Could adjust that with quite some efforts to be a little closer but well...

Both great and capable cameras, up to your taste then!

[Zhenya]

20 hours ago, Malabito said:

where are you located that you can find the ZF for 1.6K new? thats a great price!

Moscow, Russia. BUT! Russia is under western (+Japan) economic sanctions now, so Nikon and other photographic brands have closed their official dealerships here. And all we have today is "grey import" cameras/lenses without official guarantee and technical support.

[Zhenya]

16 hours ago, OleBe said:

Build quality wise, yeah the Zf is okay, but the SL2-S is in a different league. Though at least for my SL2-S copy display and EVF do not match at all colour wise. Could adjust that with quite some efforts to be a little closer but well...

Thank you for your opinion!

Could you please explain more about the quality of their EVF, because I hate to compose the picture on the screen, so good EVF is a No 1 in my decision list.

Edited July 13, 2024 by Zhenya
mistakes

[Malabito]

1 hour ago, Zhenya said:

Moscow, Russia. BUT! Russia is under western (+Japan) economic sanctions now, so Nikon and other photographic brands have closed their official dealerships here. And all we have today is "grey import" cameras/lenses without official guarantee and technical support.

thanks i am in EU, but i just checked einfinity and they are going for 1.8k euros, (plus 30 for shipping). Not an amazing deal but still   way cheaper than buying locally, (~2.5k euros). That makes the Zf actually quite affordable compared to other similar camera. You get a lot for less, (einfinitty is also grey market, but they offer guarantee and they are reliable).

I just wished the zf had no AA filter... (I dont care about video ).

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[Zhenya]

13 minutes ago, Malabito said:

I just wished the zf had no AA filter... (I dont care about video ).

I'm not quite familiar with modern digital technologies, but does an AA filter significantly affect the picture quality especially when use old manual lens?

[Malabito]

2 hours ago, Zhenya said:

I'm not quite familiar with modern digital technologies, but does an AA filter significantly affect the picture quality especially when use old manual lens?

Not sure what the impact is on old manual lenses, (probably helps in hiding the lens defects ), an AA filter adds a kind of soft smoothing effect over the image. When you compare an image from a camera with an AA filter with one without one, the one without one will be considerably sharper, especially when zooming in. An AA filter helps to reduce moiré, which in video can be a pain in the ass to edit out, but in photography, you have tools to do it, so unless shooting video or a lot of image with fabric, i dont see why to prefer a camera with an AA. All of my cameras don't have an AA filter, and I think I've had one or two images ruined by moiré out of thousands of images.

This is one of the reasons I'm not so fond of the ZF. The SL2s plus the 35mm SL Apo makes you forget it's only 24 MP; it's crazy sharp.

Edited July 13, 2024 by Malabito