Bizarre, M11 flips photos

[Beewacker]

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I was out riding my bike and stopped to take some pictures of some clouds above a vineyard in the Napa Valley yesterday. I took around 40 photos earlier the same day and they were all fine. The images I included in this post were all taken within 2 minutes of each other. Image 2887 is OK. Images 2888, 2889 and 2890 were all flipped (or upside down?) Image 2891 is back to normal.

I swear on E Leitz's grave I did not turn the camera upside down. I was not drinking the wine, just riding through the vineyard.

Unfortunately I was using the rangefinder so I can say how the image looked on the back screen.

Has anyone else seen or heard of this behavior?? They are still useable photos, I just need to rotate in Lightroom.

Thanks, 

Ron

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Edited June 26, 2024 by Beewacker
Blame Lightroom

[Beewacker]

Sorry everyone, Leica is not to fault. I reviewed the photos on the camera and somehow, Lightroom rotated those photos when I imported them.

Apologies to all. 

Ron

[Brianmered]

Any idea what causes it, because I have te same issue?

[Jamie Roberts]

My new M11P did this with the previous firmware (now running 2.1.1 and I haven't seen this, but others have).

The same JPEG and RAW files were both affected: rotated 180 degrees. Maybe 20 shots out of 5K I took--and I have absolutely no idea why. There was a run of shots--all upside down, then back to normal. No freezes or other funny stuff. I didn't review them in the camera. 

Easy enough to fix of course, but very weird indeed! I noticed reports of this in the forum going back to when the M11 was first introduced. 

Edited June 26, 2024 by Jamie Roberts

[Malabito]

I just had this issue with the latest firmware. There's something in the metadata that's causing the images to be upside down. It's not Lightroom; it's Leica's fault. If you open the images in any other viewer, they will also be upside down. This didn't happen to me with the previous firmware.

[Sid Bolan]

I have the same problem. Landscape images rotate 180 degrees, portrait images 90. Occasional freezes still ongoing too and so far a one off bc battery warning when the battery was at 70%. It's a bit like skippering the Africa Queen.

[sebas_]

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Have had the same issue some days ago. I noticed it on several images, after one image was corrupted on the internal memory others were flipped. I do not know if these are connected somehow. 

[jigesh]

Could it somehow be related to Perspective Correction being ON and Lightroom perhaps messing up in reading the info properly? 

[Malabito]

Just now, jigesh said:

Could it somehow be related to Perspective Correction being ON and Lightroom perhaps messing up in reading the info properly? 

I have prespective control off....and I just had this issue.

[JaSko]

It happens to me also with FW 2.1.1, perspective control is OFF. Also after import to Lightroom or Apple Photos some images are upside down. Easy fix but just interesting why it is happening.

Janez

[Jamie Roberts]

It's been happening for awhile from what I can tell, and isn't fixed in 2.1.1.
It has nothing to do with Lightroom (which I don't use). C1 sees it as well, as does other DNG viewing software.  

[scott kirkpatrick]

I've seen it, too, but not often. Presumably the sensor that tells the camera that is is upside down can give bad data, or there is a bug that messes up that data.  Since I've only seen pictures inverted when shooting with the camera horizontal, I think it is some electronic problem, where the "which way is up" bits get wrong.  Has anyone shot in a vertical framing and seen the picture come out inverted?  Hasn't happened to me.  But if that were the case, I would suspect a sensor.  So it's probably a bug, and could happen to anyone, not a hardware problem, which would stay with particular cameras.

[Knorp]

No 'flipping' here (M11P) after almost 4000 shots.

[Malabito]

30 minutes ago, Knorp said:

No 'flipping' here (M11P) after almost 4000 shots.

i did almost 6k with no issues, (i would say 60% with the old fimrware and 40% with the newer one), and only afte 5k images i got the upside ones, nothing changed in my style of shooting, i did nothing new

[Knorp]

23 minutes ago, Malabito said:

i did almost 6k with no issues, (i would say 60% with the old fimrware and 40% with the newer one), and only afte 5k images i got the upside ones, nothing changed in my style of shooting, i did nothing new

Right, some 1k more images and I’m toast … 

[dugby]

Many have not mentioned the fundamentals of 35mm lens design and photography basics.

 

All 35mm lenses, including Leica M lenses project the image onto film or a digital sensor upside down. With film, the user has the film processed and manually handles the orientation of the acetate according what they do with it, eg place into an enlarger, slide projector or hold it up to a background light.  With a digital camera, the manufacturers have chosen to automate the correct orientation for user convenience.
 

So with a digital sensor, the camera hardware must have an  orientation sensor so that the firmware can write  orientation data, usually landscape vs portrait, or if the camera is purposely inverted.

 

I suggest the current spate of unexpected inverted images could be a result of either:

-an intermittent fault with the orientation sensor, or

-glitch in the firmware in associating the correct orientation at the moment of in-camera processing (writing) of the image data.

-an undocumented issue ( the: I don’t know what I don’t know explanation)

 

My apologies to those who already understand the photographic principles, as I don’t recall reading anything amongst this issue.

 

If you think I’m writing nonsense … you could be right.

 

[colint544]

Had my M11 just over a year. I only ever ran firmware 1.6.1 until last month, when I thought I'd live a little, and upgrade to the new 2.1.1. Went out one sunny afternoon, and took a series of pictures.

Got three freezes requiring a battery pull in the space of an hour, and when I uploaded the card into Photo Mechanic, a couple of the shots were upside down. Never had that before, (or any freezes, for that matter). The shots either side of the upside down ones, the camera had not moved. I was pointing it square on to the subjects, not tilting or rotating it at all. Perspective control is always off. Never had any of this with 1.6.1, but I did sometimes get wildly overexposed frames when shooting on aperture priority.

It's not happened since. I'm not massively bothered about the upside down shots, but I didn't like the freezes. Stuff like that plays around the edges of your confidence in the camera. If I pick up my 12-year-old battered Canon EOS 1DX, I know that the job is in the bag, reliability is never an issue, and I can concentrate on the pictures. That thing is as reliable as an anvil. Would be so nice to be able to say the same of my M11.

[kiwidad]

On 6/26/2024 at 10:58 PM, Malabito said:

I just had this issue with the latest firmware. There's something in the metadata that's causing the images to be upside down. It's not Lightroom; it's Leica's fault. If you open the images in any other viewer, they will also be upside down. This didn't happen to me with the previous firmware.

I have never had this happen with my M11, but It randomly happened on my M10 and previous fuji cameras. If I open in preview on my mac its not inverted.

the times i saw it in the past the problem went away as quick as it came.

[Jacobjuul]

Happens on my M11-D with 2.2.0

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[jpark114]

This happened to my M11-P.  The pictures were correctly shown through Leica review, but upon importing to Lightroom, all but two pictures showed upside down (~80 photos total)

For the most of shots, I wasn't at extreme angle, just normal eye level like photos...

 

Easy to fix it I agree, but bothersome nonetheless...