My New (To Me) Leica II

[vickersdc]

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Well, my 1937 Leica II has arrived and I'm very excited :-) Now, I must admit to not knowing a lot about the vagaries of early Leica cameras and I've a couple of questions about it...

 

 

The serial number dates this to be a 1937 Leica II, part of a batch of 300 (source: Cameraquest). Of all the Leica II's that I have seen, they all have notched windows rather than rounded (like mine). I guess that's because it's a later II ? Also, mine has the shutter speeds going down to 20-1 - but no slow speeds (did they come about with the IIIa?). Why did it get marked as 20-1 and not just 20 ?

 

I know that it's been converted to have have M & X flash sync. and I'm guessing this wasn't done by Leica on this camera.

 

Still, I can't wait to stick a lens on it and fire it up!

 

Cheers,

David.

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[luigi bertolotti]

From the French site Summilux.net... which I got to know thanks to forum member JC Braconi (hope you can read a little of French... ):

 

La première année de fabrication, les modèles reçurent un barillet de sélection des vitesses de diamètre 15,5 mm, qui diminua à 13,5 mm l’année suivante.

Il y avait une raison à cela : à partir du début de la production du Leica III (1933), dérivé du Leica II, le barillet des vitesses comporta, à côté du chiffre 20 marquant le 1/20ème de seconde, le chiffre 1 indiquant la position de ce barillet lors de l’utilisation de vitesses lentes par le seul Leica III (dont l’obturateur le permet) : la fabrication des barillets avait été uniformisée.

De même, si durant l’année 1932 la partie du capot de télémètre surmontée du barillet des vitesses était arrondie, en forme de « siège de WC » selon une appellation étonnante mais ayant cours outre-Manche (à cette époque ce siège était rond !), le capot des Leica II fabriqués ultérieurement présenta à ce niveau des facettes en "pan-coupé". Ce discret changement d’aspect apparut en 1933 avec le Leica III, constituant une amélioration du Leica II par adjonction des vitesses lentes, ajout qui imposa cette légère modification du capot. La politique de Leitz étant d’offrir à ses clients la possibilité de transformer leur appareil en l’équivalent d’un modèle plus récent, cette modification du capot du Leica II est apparue dès 1933 en même temps que le Leica III, prévoyant ainsi d’éventuelles demandes de modernisation.

 

SO: time index 1-20 is nothing strange ; about the "rounded windows"... I do not understand well what exactly you refer to... Sync is clearly a later add-on

[vickersdc]

Thanks for that Luigi, to paraphrase for everyone else (not an exact translation, but hopefully close enough!)...

 

"During the first year of manufacture the shutter dial was 15.5mm and then reduced to 13.5mm the following year. With the debut of the Leica III in 1933 the shutter dial had the 1/20th setting changed to 20-1 to allow the introduction of the slow speeds. This shutter dial became a the standard dial and so was also fitted to later Leica II models.

 

With the advent of the Leica III the top plate under the shutter dial changed from the 'lavatory seat' of prior models to the slightly angled [as per the image of my Leica II]. Leica, did offer existing clients an upgrade path to make the Leica II look closer to a Leica III".

 

By the way, what I meant by rounded window was the front viewfinder window - early ones are notched at the top right (as you look at the camera from the front), whereas my later is rounded.

 

It seems odd to me that Leica quite clearly had a Leica III that was in production, even though the Leica II was also still being produced... and then clients could upgrade their II to look more like a III. :-)

 

Anyhow, it's my first 'real' Leica (my Digilux 1 doesn't really count!), and I'm over the moon. I've got some film next to me and I'm about to cut the leader to shape and load it up ready to use.

 

Thanks,

David.

[earleygallery]

Well there were many minor changes to these early cameras during their production runs, not to mention later upgrades (such as your flash syncs) and or repairs using parts from other models.

 

Looks like a nice one, post some of your pics when you get them developed. And do get yourself that 5cm Elmar!

[luigi bertolotti]

I sympathize with you, Dave... it was 1983 when I bought my first Leica (IIIc with Elmar, of course still have it) and remember well all the moments of that fabolous first approaches to use it... (even if I wasn't new to RF... Zorky 4k in 1975... ); to me the right way to enter this world is anyway with some old SCREW MOUNT. And, let me say... FIND AN ELMAR for your body !!! Doesn't matter is a modest 3,5... you anyway shall be happy with it, and is cheap, easy to find, and you have lot of time to find a more luminous normal... that will be a more difficult find & choice (f2 ? why not 1,5 ...?).

[noddy]

Dave have a look at this link. I'ts a very good lens, may be too expensive - don't know your budget - but I can assure you it takes excellent shots, i know, it's mine!

 

Andy

 

Red Scale Elmar on eBay, also, For 35mm Rangefinder, Camera Lenses, Photography (end time 08-Dec-07 20:10:41 GMT)

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[vickersdc]

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Thanks for the link to the lens - unfortunately I just can't afford to buy a lens at the moment. I will, however, be using the camera as my daily picture-taker by utilising my Industar-26 lens for now. I'm hoping to save up and buy a lens in February for it. It looks like it's going to be a 5cm f3.5 Elmar (so far thats the only lens I've been recommended for it) and I'd like it to be uncoated too.

 

The subject of lenses is, quite frankly, hugely confusing - Elmar, Summar, Summarit, Summitar, Hexanor(?)..... how on earth does one decide what is a 'good' lens? I'm guessing a lot is down to personal taste, contrast, flare and so on. Is there a good overview of these lenses somewhere? Particularly if it relates to pre-war lenses.

 

Thanks,

David.

PS: I'm hoping to run a film through it (Rollei Retro 400) as a test and see how it goes. The camera had been serviced in July and been CLA'ed as well as having the shutter curtains re-vulcanised. Apart from a little bit of rubbing, it's in mint condition.

[luigi bertolotti]

Thanks for the link to the lens - unfortunately I just can't afford to buy a lens at the moment. I will, however, be using the camera as my daily picture-taker by utilising my Industar-26 lens for now. I'm hoping to save up and buy a lens in February for it. It looks like it's going to be a 5cm f3.5 Elmar (so far thats the only lens I've been recommended for it) and I'd like it to be uncoated too.

 

The subject of lenses is, quite frankly, hugely confusing - Elmar, Summar, Summarit, Summitar, Hexanor(?)..... how on earth does one decide what is a 'good' lens? I'm guessing a lot is down to personal taste, contrast, flare and so on. Is there a good overview of these lenses somewhere? Particularly if it relates to pre-war lenses.

 

Thanks,

David.

PS: I'm hoping to run a film through it (Rollei Retro 400) as a test and see how it goes. The camera had been serviced in July and been CLA'ed as well as having the shutter curtains re-vulcanised. Apart from a little bit of rubbing, it's in mint condition.

 

Get there David... only 200 pages or so on Leitz lenses (with very good general considerations on lens tech) : pdf format, downloadable, free, no pictures. The author is a well known expert and, even if someone doesn't appreciate completely his approach to "lens testing", he is undoubtly one who goes well in depth also with old prewar lenses.

Download | Photography and image capture: the Leica technique and philosophy by Erwin Puts | Erwin Puts

 

Just a personal question/curios... how old are you ?

[vickersdc]

Hi Luigi, I'm 38. May I ask why?

 

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at that over the weekend.

 

Cheers,

David.

[luigi bertolotti]

Hi Luigi, I'm 38. May I ask why?

 

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at that over the weekend.

 

Cheers,

David.

 

Dave... was a simply curiosity about the age at which one buys his first real Leica... I have the impression that the "Leica feel" is becoming rare in people in their '20s... your age is a confirmation of this... a little time ago, in this forum, a poll about the age of members was made, and the result was a tipical Gaussian curve with max values in the 40s-to 60s (me included - 50...) and very small numbers in the 20s...

I like math & stats, and am also a collector... these data make easy to envision a lowering of mean collector prices in the next 10-15 years...

[vickersdc]

Luigi,

 

Somewhat off-topic, but why do you think that prices will go down in the next 10-15 years? If the general consensus is that the population is getting older that will bring more people in to your 40-60 age group - and that means (potentially) more collectors after a limited number of cameras. So, surely the general prices of cameras will rise?

 

David.

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David Vickers Photography: Environmental Portraiture.

[luigi bertolotti]

To be precise: I referred to Leica collectors market (a specific group within photo collectors market); I follow its prices, having collected Leitz gears for > 20 years (including items like old viewfinders, filters, other strange accessories...), and first signals of a lowering have started to emerge, indeed... on the contrary, in the last 6-7 years, old Nikon prices have risen significantly... and I think this is due to a "generation effect" : people that can afford collecting are usually in their "middle age" (say, 45-55) and they feel the interest/fascination towards items of their youth: Nikon was a legend in the '60-'70s, Leica was such in the '50-'60s... something similar occurs in the classic car market.

[vickersdc]

An interesting hypothesis Luigi! Using this analogy we should maybe be buying up Olympus gear thanks to the success of David Bailey in the 70's?

 

Interesting to note however, that I am also a Nikon user and love those cameras - this would bear out your thoughts of them being very popular around the time of the 60's - as I'm a 60's child (just!).

 

But camera gear like Nikon and Leica are collected / used as they have both made a name for themselves as being the epitome of camera design / usage. I love my Nikons as they are very durable and the lenses are great. What's even better is that as many people are turning to digital, film gear gets cheaper.

 

Having said all that, ever since I first started in photography I've been aware of the 'lure of Leica'. Hindsight being a wonderful thing, if I'd of bought Leica all those years ago instead of the many others, I could have bought new!

 

Funny thing is, I heard much being made of whisper-quiet shutters and so on, and my II isn't much quieter than my Fed-2. But - and it's a big but - there is definitely a psychology at play when using the Leica. I don't get it with the Digilux 1, but I certainly feel part of something when using the II. It's like the camera comes with the 'baggage' of Leica history (does that make sense, or am I just mad?).

 

Cheers,

David.

[luigi bertolotti]

The REALLY QUIET shutter is the postwar shutter of M3-M2-M4 ; I had a Zorky4K, with Leica screw mount... not so different in noise from my Leica IIIc...

[vickersdc]

Well, here it is, my Leica newly kitted out with it's Red Scale Elmar lens. I always thought you Leica types were continually banging on about how good they felt to hold and use, and that it was all part of the myth surrounding Leica.

 

How wrong was I!? I'm a convert and this is now the only film camera I use, and I'm loving it! I find it hard to believe that it's 70 years old, smaller than nearly all other film cameras and is still totally usable and comfortable today. Somehow, I dont think the same will be true for my Nikon D40 in 70 years time.

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

David.

[jc_braconi]

Congratulations Dave,

You got the right one

[luigi bertolotti]

Good, David, the RIGHT buy... an Elmar 5 in its finest version for use... and looks in very good conditions, seem...; now... load film (or try to ... ), get out, shot, develop, SCAN & POST !!!

[Theodor Heinrichsohn]

David,

As knowledgeable experts have stated the red scale Elmar ist the best vintage 50/3.5 Leica produced. I suggest you try out a 50/2.5 Hektor, uncoated, as a contrast to your Elmar. The Hektor is from the same age as your camera. I have a black Leica II with the Hektor. There is no distortion and very little vignetting, even wide open. Contrast is lower than the red scale Elmar. Optimum f=stop is about f8. An interesting lense if you like pastel tones.

The Elmar has a special lense hood and a small ring which facilitates the changing of f- stops. You will find descriptions in Leica literature.

My first Leica was a gift of my father ( a Leica II with Hektor ). I was not able to keep it - for reasons too long to go into - and later in life bought a very similar camera/lense which I still use sometimes, in spite of a host of other Leicas, lenses + Nikons, Hasselblad, Linhof, Ebony etc.

I had a look at your site and like the "personal project". Some of the pictures might have become "dreamier" with the Hektor.

Have lots of fun with your Leica II.

Teddy

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[vickersdc]

Hi Teddy,

 

Thanks for your post. I've taken a couple of shots with it, just need to finish the roll and develop it.

 

I find myself totally sucked in to the 'Leica' way - nothing else will do! I know it's not logical, but if something can last for so many years, still be completely usable and in excellent condition then it can't all be bad can it? I paid £120 for the Red Scale, and I have to admit that I don't know if it was under-priced, over-priced or 'on-the-nose', but when I saw it, it seemed to be in such good condition that I had to have it!

 

With the number of years this Leica stuff lasts, even though they are an expensive purchase upfront, the amount spread over time actually comes to less than people are paying updating their digital equipment every year or two.

 

Anyway, thanks to you all as I feel that I made the right choice.

 

David.

[luigi bertolotti]

Hey David, just to predict your future... ... keep in mind that for about the same (or slightly less) amount you paid for your Elmar you can find also :

 

- A delicious 90 (Elmar)

- A clever 35 (Summaron, or even old Elmar)

- A proudly protruding 135 (Hektor or the some costier Elmar)

... and a fine multifocal finder for them all (VIOOH)... maybe the costiest of those items...

 

Trust me, you CANNOT escape this future... maybe you can stop after the above buys... For the moment, enjoy purely your new camera !!!