Panasonic S9 - a harbinger of things to come at Leica?

[Wildpeak]

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So it is possible, IBIS, interchangeable AF lenses, all within the size of a Q… interesting. Would a good EVF and a hotshoe add so much size - or is this a concept of where a future Q could go?

Edited June 11, 2024 by Wildpeak
Missed that it lacks an EVF

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[jaapv]

Not really. The S9 is purely aimed at vloggers - it does not even have  a viewfinder and the ability to take stills is only incidental.

[bobtodrick]

Yup..we will be stocking them, definitely not aimed at the same demographic the Q series is aimed at.

[dpitt]

Looks more like competition for the Sigma FP

[JNK100]

This couldn't be more dissimilar to a Q.

[dsalamena]

I think it shows us that it is possible to make a very small full-frame camera. Just add a viewfinder and that would be a perfect CL successor.

If it comes out to be bigger than the S9, it would be even better for photography purposes. 

[Simone_DF]

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10 hours ago, dsalamena said:

I think it shows us that it is possible to make a very small full-frame camera. Just add a viewfinder and that would be a perfect CL successor.

Of course it is. The Sony A7C has been out for a few years. 

[Kozonoh]

And even better ( but unfortunately getting too old) the Sony Rx1m2

[dsalamena]

That's why I don't understand when people say that it is not possibile to make a full frame camera with interchangeable lenses in a Q form. 

I understand Leica doesn't want to cannibalize its own market, but it would make sense to sell a Q full frame camera with L mount.  To avoid direct competition, they can use an old 47mpx Q2 sensor, image stabilization and a good evf. It would sell very very well in my opinion...

[bobtodrick]

1 hour ago, dsalamena said:

That's why I don't understand when people say that it is not possibile to make a full frame camera with interchangeable lenses in a Q form. 

I understand Leica doesn't want to cannibalize its own market, but it would make sense to sell a Q full frame camera with L mount.  To avoid direct competition, they can use an old 47mpx Q2 sensor, image stabilization and a good evf. It would sell very very well in my opinion...

I don't think they are too worried about sales...there's a months long wait for both Q and M...remember, they aren't a company like Nikon, Sony or Canon that have the resources of copiers, semiconductor, audio and video, medical and a host of other products to pay the bills.

They do things carefully and only when they are sure they can provide product.

As much as some people extol the virtues of the Vario X models and such...they didn;t actually sell that well,.

Edited June 13, 2024 by bobtodrick

[Qwertynm]

6 hours ago, dsalamena said:

That's why I don't understand when people say that it is not possibile to make a full frame camera with interchangeable lenses in a Q form. 

I'm not an engineer but I believe the challenge is to get the lens as small as the Q-series and still have a fast f-number. It's one thing to design a compact body that accepts multiple lenses and it's another to have a fast and small lens to go with that has little to no compromises. Sony has small 24,40 and 50 f/2.5 lenses, Canon has small 16 and 28mm f/2.8 lenses and panasonic has whatever that fixed f/8 26mm is supposed to be. But if you look at faster lenses, they are much larger. and then there is no real need for a small body if you mount a 800g f/1.2/1.4 Sony GM, Canon L or Leica APO. There will always be some tradeoffs. You can't cheat physics.

[Simone_DF]

6 hours ago, dsalamena said:

I understand Leica doesn't want to cannibalize its own market, 

If they won’t, someone else will. 
To me the S9, even with the current limits of no evf and no mechanical shutter, can already be a valid alternative to the Q. I plan to get one in a few months, when the price goes down or there’s some special offer, and pair it with the Sigma 45mm, which I already have, or the Sigma 50mm f2 

[Simone_DF]

12 minutes ago, Qwertynm said:

I'm not an engineer but I believe the challenge is to get the lens as small as the Q-series and still have a fast f-number. It's one thing to design a compact body that accepts multiple lenses and it's another to have a fast and small lens to go with that has little to no compromises. Sony has small 24,40 and 50 f/2.5 lenses, Canon has small 16 and 28mm f/2.8 lenses and panasonic has whatever that fixed f/8 26mm is supposed to be. But if you look at faster lenses, they are much larger. and then there is no real need for a small body if you mount a 800g f/1.2/1.4 Sony GM, Canon L or Leica APO. There will always be some tradeoffs. You can't cheat physics.

Does it really have to be faster than f2? Considering how good is high iso today, I don’t need anything faster than f2. If I want anything faster for more bokeh or that special look wide open, I usually go for my set of M lenses.

[dsalamena]

6 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

I don't think they are too worried about sales...there's a months long wait for both Q and M...remember, they aren't a company like Nikon, Sony or Canon that have the resources of copiers, semiconductor, audio and video, medical and a host of other products to pay the bills.

They do things carefully and only when they are sure they can provide product.

As much as some people extol the virtues of the Vario X models and such...they didn;t actually sell that well,.

I would use the wonderful and compact TL lenses (zooms and primes). 

[jaapv]

8 hours ago, dsalamena said:

That's why I don't understand when people say that it is not possibile to make a full frame camera with interchangeable lenses in a Q form. 

I understand Leica doesn't want to cannibalize its own market, but it would make sense to sell a Q full frame camera with L mount.  To avoid direct competition, they can use an old 47mpx Q2 sensor, image stabilization and a good evf. It would sell very very well in my opinion...

Because the only reason that the Q can be the size that it is and still  full frame, is the fully integrated lens/aperture/shutter/sensor unit. Lose that and you will bloat the camera 

 

34 minutes ago, dsalamena said:

I would use the wonderful and compact TL lenses (zooms and primes). 

Designed for APS-C…🙄

[dsalamena]

I'm not an expert, so I might be wrong, but I believe that the S9 is smaller than the Q and has no integrated lens/aperture/shutter/sensor unit. Yes, it lacks the viewfinder and a mechanical shutter, but how larger would it be with those two features added? Also let's not forget the S9 has IBIS too. 

Again I don't like the S9 because it's TOO small and lacks a EVF, but a Q sized camera (or something similar) with full frame sensor, IBIS, EVF and L-mount is technically possible in my opinion.

As for the lenses, I don't see a real issue there. With a L-mount I could use whatever lens I want: 1) large full frame Leica SL zooms and prime lenses; 2) Sigma contemporary zoom and prime lenses; 3) compact TL aps-c zoom and prime lenses (with a 47mpx full frame camera I would have more than 20mpx, more than enough); 4) compact M lenses with an adapter...

It would be a dream camera, that's why I'm afraid Leica will not do it any time soon. I'm not going to buy an SL camera because it's too big and heavy for my non professional needs, but I would immediately buy a Q camera with L mount and I think I would not be alone in the market.

Edited June 13, 2024 by dsalamena

[Le Chef]

To follow on @jaapv comment about why the Q series is not a good start point:

The lens is integrated into the body. There is no lens mount.

The leaf shutter is built into the lens. Which means the focal distance to the sensor can be optimized with almost zero error.

OIS is obviously built into the lens. If you want a metaphor, think Russian Doll nesting.

So if you want a small FF ILC with L mount, then the Q series is likely not the best place to start, because once you’ve removed most of what makes the Q a Q in order to create an L mount camera, you might as well start from scratch.

And that’s before you start thinking about cannibalizing sales and profitability from the SL series.

[jaapv]

A compact L mount camera for stills will become possible in the future as the miniaturization of components progresses. However I am sure that it would be developed in conjunction with Panasonic, not Sigma, and would be based on SL technology. An SL5 C(ompact) maybe. As even higher MP sensors than presently will be possible with the next generation of UVE lithography machines, it would be quite suitable for TL lenses in crop mode. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[bobtodrick]

3 hours ago, dsalamena said:

It would be a dream camera, that's why I'm afraid Leica will not do it any time soon. I'm not going to buy an SL camera because it's too big and heavy for my non professional needs, but I would immediately buy a Q camera with L mount and I think I would not be alone in the market.

Exactly…It’s your dream camera.

Mine would be a Q3 without the swivel LCD…I dislike them and it’s why I won’t upgrade.

Everyone (nearly) has there idea of what would improve a particular camera to suit them…considering the wait times to get a Q3 and the overall very positive reviews…for many people the Q3 is the dream camera.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, bobtodrick said:

Exactly…It’s your dream camera

Luckily for you everybody's dream camera is a composite of a number of cameras and they will buy them all. 🤩