Which monochrom

[ramarren]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 3/13/2025 at 9:40 AM, jja said:

Thanks, Godfrey.  By "conventional wisdom," I simply mean that yellow is the most common filter recommended for B&W photography.  I have a green filter lying around, and I will try it and compare to my standard yellow.

I have to wonder what the value of such "conventional wisdom" might be. One should use filters with B&W recording medium to achieve specific goals, not just because "everyone says to use this..." The use of B&W filters, from my perspective, is to help separate tonal values on colors that image closely in grayscale but look quite distinct to the eye in color, or conversely to bring tonal translations of colors in grayscale closer together. You can see this easily with the grayscale swatches ... some filters help separate tones that are close together where others tend to reduce the separation.

The most typical case of where this is useful are with red and green ... red and green tones of similar intensity often look virtually identical on a B&W capture due to the spectral response curve of most B&W recording mediums. If you look at the gray scale swatches in my tests, on the Color Checker there are three pairs of similar intensity red-green tones: (3,3) and (1,4), (2,3) and (3,2), and (1,2) and (2,5). 

The M10 Monochrom without a filter renders these pairs of swatches as very nearly identical grayscale values, and does the same fitted with a yellow filter. The green filter helps separate these three sets of red-green tones better, which nets more tonal variation to work with in your photographs.

I hope that helps a little.   As always, given the data presented by testing as a starting point, the best thing to do is to experiment and find what suits your eye best.

G

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jja]

The value of conventional wisdom, photographically speaking, is that it's a good starting point based on the experiences of others.  I don't mind relying on the fact-based knowledge of others.  I agree that it's ultimately up to the individual user to decide what works for them.  From my years shooting B&W film, I found that a yellow filter worked well for adding a bit of contrast, so I kept using it.  Your experiences and knowledge gained with green filters on the M10M has made me curious to try them.

Conventional wisdom in other areas of life--ideology and morality, for example--that I have no time for.

[kiwidad]

On 3/15/2025 at 3:01 AM, ramarren said:

I have to wonder what the value of such "conventional wisdom" might be. One should use filters with B&W recording medium to achieve specific goals, not just because "everyone says to use this..." The use of B&W filters, from my perspective, is to help separate tonal values on colors that image closely in grayscale but look quite distinct to the eye in color, or conversely to bring tonal translations of colors in grayscale closer together. You can see this easily with the grayscale swatches ... some filters help separate tones that are close together where others tend to reduce the separation.

The most typical case of where this is useful are with red and green ... red and green tones of similar intensity often look virtually identical on a B&W capture due to the spectral response curve of most B&W recording mediums. If you look at the gray scale swatches in my tests, on the Color Checker there are three pairs of similar intensity red-green tones: (3,3) and (1,4), (2,3) and (3,2), and (1,2) and (2,5). 

The M10 Monochrom without a filter renders these pairs of swatches as very nearly identical grayscale values, and does the same fitted with a yellow filter. The green filter helps separate these three sets of red-green tones better, which nets more tonal variation to work with in your photographs.

I hope that helps a little.   As always, given the data presented by testing as a starting point, the best thing to do is to experiment and find what suits your eye best.

G

I think your on the money here. conventional wisdom is often broadly based. If as a B&W shooter you hung out mostly with landscape shooters the filter wisdom would wildly vary from urban shooter or people shooters.  Since a large percentage of my shots typically have sky I always found appeal in a yellow filter.  I am a late comer to digital Monochrome having just acquired an M10M so it will be interesting to see how much old school film filter knowledge transfers to digital. 

[kiwidad]

Having recently acquired an m10m, I would suggest the battery situation is a concern on the older monos than the 10.

Batteries have become hard to find, questionable freshness and prices have gotten silly

[Ne314satel]

On 7/21/2024 at 4:36 PM, jaapv said:

Everybody is forgetting the M9M - which is the king for me. All the others are progressively smooth and digital.

It's hard to disagree. The M11M is great if you're concerned about noise when shooting at night and resolution. But the unprocessed photos from it are grey and lack contrast. The grey transitions are clinically digital. This is probably how digital cameras should be. And only the M9M is the true king of film images in the world of digital cameras. No one else.)

[jaapv]

On 4/8/2025 at 1:49 PM, kiwidad said:

Having recently acquired an m10m, I would suggest the battery situation is a concern on the older monos than the 10.

Batteries have become hard to find, questionable freshness and prices have gotten silly

The market is awash with M8/ M9 batteries. 

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 3/25/2025 at 1:48 PM, kiwidad said:

I think your on the money here. conventional wisdom is often broadly based. If as a B&W shooter you hung out mostly with landscape shooters the filter wisdom would wildly vary from urban shooter or people shooters.  Since a large percentage of my shots typically have sky I always found appeal in a yellow filter.  I am a late comer to digital Monochrome having just acquired an M10M so it will be interesting to see how much old school film filter knowledge transfers to digital. 

Filters need to be slightly more intense but for the rest the knowledge transfers 1:1. 

[Dazzajl]

21 minutes ago, Ne314satel said:

It's hard to disagree. The M11M is great if you're concerned about noise when shooting at night and resolution. But the unprocessed photos from it are grey and lack contrast. The grey transitions are clinically digital. This is probably how digital cameras should be. And only the M9M is the true king of film images in the world of digital cameras. No one else.)

So true. I wanted a M9M but after an age trying to land a good one, a great M246 appeared at Ffordes and I went for it. I really love the 246 and I don’t regret going for it at all. I do like having live view sometimes for critical focus and even just seeing if my lenses need a little a tweak from the rangefinder view to adjust for calibration issues. 
 

BUT…. I see images from the M9M and they’re just different from any other camera. I’m sure lots of people don’t like the slightly smudgy, charcoal drawing look of the blacks but I adore it. One day I’ll get there 

[kiwidad]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

The market is awash with M8/ M9 batteries. 

Problem with used batteries is “life” it’s the unknown and the are likely getting close to EOL! But you cannot tell and they are at a premium!

[jaapv]

I normally buy new ones. 

[Budfox]

Leica UK still sell new ones for the M9 series - even now marked UK/CA post exiting the EU.

[Derbyshire Man]

On 3/25/2025 at 12:48 PM, kiwidad said:

I think your on the money here. conventional wisdom is often broadly based. If as a B&W shooter you hung out mostly with landscape shooters the filter wisdom would wildly vary from urban shooter or people shooters.  Since a large percentage of my shots typically have sky I always found appeal in a yellow filter.  I am a late comer to digital Monochrome having just acquired an M10M so it will be interesting to see how much old school film filter knowledge transfers to digital. 

I think with digital black and white there’s a lot of unconventional wisdom spoken. Many arguing to leave orange filters on all the time as it increases contrast - yet in reality only between sky and clouds, no similar global effect. The yellow/orange/red filters have in my view deleterious impact on portraits leading to ghost like faces much of the time, green is good for spring foliage but makes anyone with freckles look like they’ve got small pox!

Additionally with modern masking and AI selection of sky etc 99% can be achieved in post without the hassle of having the wrong filter on at the wrong time.  

I’m not completely arguing against filters but simply that they need to be selected with a purpose in mind and are not cure alls or to be left on unless one takes the same type of image all day every day.

Similar goes for my M monochrome is better than yours. In the same way that the camera you used for film was only the beginning so it is for digital, the digital development and use of processors like Silver Efex is a replacement for film stock and dark room effort. The only caveat being it’s easy to shrink and then interpolate up an image to lose detail prior to processing/grain etc, but not the other way around. 

[Bikie John]

45 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I think with digital black and white there’s a lot of unconventional wisdom spoken. Many arguing to leave orange filters on all the time as it increases contrast - yet in reality only between sky and clouds, no similar global effect. The yellow/orange/red filters have in my view deleterious impact on portraits leading to ghost like faces much of the time, green is good for spring foliage but makes anyone with freckles look like they’ve got small pox!

Additionally with modern masking and AI selection of sky etc 99% can be achieved in post without the hassle of having the wrong filter on at the wrong time.  

I’m not completely arguing against filters but simply that they need to be selected with a purpose in mind and are not cure alls or to be left on unless one takes the same type of image all day every day.

Similar goes for my M monochrome is better than yours. In the same way that the camera you used for film was only the beginning so it is for digital, the digital development and use of processors like Silver Efex is a replacement for film stock and dark room effort. The only caveat being it’s easy to shrink and then interpolate up an image to lose detail prior to processing/grain etc, but not the other way around. 

This looks dangerously like an outbreak of common sense. What is the world coming to, we don't want that sort of thing here 😁

John

[Osirix]

On 12/5/2024 at 2:35 PM, Maverick1st said:

I feel the same way. I am never selling my M10M. 

Is this the reason why on the official Leica Used Website there are very few used M10M compared to the “most popular” used M11M or am I missing something here?!? 😅😅😅

 

[sometimesmaybe]

On 4/12/2025 at 6:33 PM, Ne314satel said:

But the unprocessed photos from it are grey and lack contrast. The grey transitions are clinically digital.

linear files give more latitude when it comes to editing, but it requires an additional step in post. adjusting the black point in your photo editor of choice easily solves the issue (or just use the JPEG)

[Jeff S]

On 5/19/2025 at 6:39 PM, sometimesmaybe said:

linear files give more latitude when it comes to editing, but it requires an additional step in post. adjusting the black point in your photo editor of choice easily solves the issue (or just use the JPEG)

Tone curve

[jaapv]

On 4/12/2025 at 5:12 PM, kiwidad said:

Problem with used batteries is “life” it’s the unknown and the are likely getting close to EOL! But you cannot tell and they are at a premium!

Premium??

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[kiwidad]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

Premium??

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

In the USA you are hard pressed to find used Leica batteries for less that 50% of new and the older one say for m9 etc are crazy money! I have bought several from large resellers with a good return policy and I track use for a few weeks to test.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[sometimesmaybe]

7 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Tone curve

yes, but black point might be a tad more user friendly for shooter who dont do much in post

[Jeff S]

51 minutes ago, sometimesmaybe said:

yes, but black point might be a tad more user friendly for shooter who dont do much in post

Black point, white point, and contrast curve in-between.  Basic PP.  Even clicking auto-adjust to curve in LR, or equivalent, is better than nothing as a starting point.