M6 - 35mm lens choice...

[Loovic]

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I've just bought my first Leica film camera, – M6 0.72 chrome body year 1997. Its from a reputable dealer with a 14 day exchange option and a 12 month warranty, so I'm pretty well covered. I'm an experienced film (and digital) photographer with a range of film cameras from 6x7 - 35mm; as I say this is my first Leica. I have 3 vintage LTM Canon lenses, 50mm 1.4, 35mm 2.0 and a 90mm which will fit the M6 with an adaptor. However I am looking to buy an M mount 35mm (I like this focal length for general work) and am thinking of the voigtlander 35mm f2 vm asph ultron vintage line type ii. Have any of the members have this and what are the views on this lens?

Thanks, this is my first post here on this forum.

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[TomB_tx]

I used to use a Summicron 35 on my M6 in film years, but these days (where I am often in dim light) I now keep a Voigtlander 35 Nokton 1.5 ver II on my M6. On digital I use a Summarit 35 2.5 - my favorite 35 lens.

I haven't tried the Ultron (no need for it) - but it sounds like a great lens.

[250swb]

I think you would be fine with the Ultron, and you've clearly looked into it or you wouldn't have mentioned it. The alternative I would choose as a starter lens is a 35mm Summicron or Summarit but don't pay over the top for a 'King of Bokeh' v4 Summicron, it isn't a king of anything. I don't think you should choose a Summilux unless you know for sure you'll want to use f/1.4, and if you do the pre-asph version is particularly useless unless you like everything between f/1.4 to f/2 in a dreamy soft glow and not just the out of focus bits. Start with something bomb proof to get you going, then decide if you want more niche 'character' style attributes later.

[hansvons]

13 hours ago, Loovic said:

thinking of the voigtlander 35mm f2 vm asph ultron vintage line type ii.

Good idea. As you own already vintage lenses that work with the M6, you may want a modern everyday 35mm lens that is tack-sharp. At least that is what I wanted when I got my pair of M6 and M4P. Why?

When shooting film, you obviously don't need to fight digital sharpness with soft, vintage glass. On the contrary, I find that B&W in particular but also colour landscapes benefit from sharp lenses down to open aperture. With film, overly sharp rendering of faces is not an issue either. At least, that's what I always found to be the case. In the M world, there is no 35mm f1.4 lens that delivers sharp images at full aperture and is light and compact.  

My preferred 35mm lens (I shoot 98% with that focal length) for film is the Summicron ASPH. It’s fairly sharp at f2, and has its optimum at F4, still maintaining lots of character features of its predecessors like a bent focal plane and nice flares but without annoying issues like smeary corners at f2-f2.8.

Only the Summarit and the APO siblings are a tad sharper at full aperture. The APO is ridiculously expensive and heavy, blocking the VF visibly, which leaves us with the Summarit. I own one and use it preferably for landscapes and architecture because it’s super sharp from the very beginning and doesn't flare at all. With an open aperture of f2.4 its a wee bit smaller than the Summicron ASPH. Does it have character? Not really, apart from the fact that it renders faces relatively flat. 

Which brings me to the Ultron. It’s basically the Cosina’s counterpart to the Summicron ASPH. I haven’t tested it. If I were, I’d look for flares and face rendering and vignetting. Vignetting in particular is an issue for film photography because corners will be underexposed, making them grainy and uncorrectable. 

What I read about it, however, resonated like a sound choice for a high-performing 35mm lens.

On a side note: if you were ever looking for an early 35mm Summilux because you wanted glowy highlights, smeary corners and all the other quirks that come with a lens of that vintage, don't look further and buy the 35mm Voigtlander Nokton f1.4 SC V2.

 

Edited May 24, 2024 by hansvons

[Davide.sva]

Welcome!

I’m an happier user of 2 35mm lens: the Voigtlander 35mm nokton 1.4 II MC and the Leica 35mm summicron asph. The first, it’s used on a Leica m6 and I fall in love for both! I recommend one of this 2lens!

[Loovic]

Thanks for the comments and advice. At the moment I am interested in exploring my Canon lenses on the M6 (which I use on my Canon P) and have also placed an order for the Ultron. As Hansvons mentioned, it will be good to compare vintage glass and new at a reasonable price; at least for now until I get to know the M6.

[Smudgerer]

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I'd definitely recommend the Voigtlander 35mm 1.4 Nokton Classic VM II SC/MC, it's the lens that made me sell the Leica 35 Summilux 1.4 SR Re-Issue that annoyed me for several reasons after buying it early last year.

Edited May 25, 2024 by Smudgerer
spelling

[hansvons]

7 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

I'd definitely recommend the Voigtlander 35mm 1.4 Nokton Classic VM II SC/MC, it's the lens that made me sell the Leica 35 Summilux 1.4 SR Re-Issue that annoyed me for several reasons after buying it early last year.

 

Having never owned a 35mm Summilux of some vintage, I have felt the urge to fill that gap because at times I photograph people outside in the sun at parties, conferences, at any kind of gathering. There, vintage quirks like flares etc can add a lot to the mood. 

Good to know that I solved that with the Nokton for good.

But I want to point out that Nokton’s magic isn't working on the SL2-S. On that sensor its only a mediocre, soft, overly vignetting and too cold rendering lens. 

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, Loovic said:

it will be good to compare vintage glass and new at a reasonable price; at least for now until I get to know the M6.

You will love the M6. That said, shooting on high-resolving film stocks like Kodak Portra 160, Kodak 5207, or Ilford Delta 100 will allow for better lens evaluation than eg TriX or HP5.

[Smudgerer]

3 hours ago, hansvons said:

Having never owned a 35mm Summilux of some vintage, I have felt the urge to fill that gap because at times I photograph people outside in the sun at parties, conferences, at any kind of gathering. There, vintage quirks like flares etc can add a lot to the mood. 

Good to know that I solved that with the Nokton for good.

But I want to point out that Nokton’s magic isn't working on the SL2-S. On that sensor its only a mediocre, soft, overly vignetting and too cold rendering lens. 

Right..........For me having both the Summilux SR Re-Issue and the Voigtlander 35 Nokton Classic 1.4 II "in house" at the same time it was easy to compare both of them for my use. If I was inclined to nit-pick comparisons between them to death I would say that in the "look" of the images produced the Leica had the edge, but don't ask me to define why. The Nokton easily has far better handling, comparing my copies of both lenses I found that the Nokton having a smoother focus action, no infinity lock is good for me plus the Nokton is much less expensive and of course the Nokton has a far far better hood/filter mounting solution than the Summilux SR/RI's hood/s and filter debacle........So the Nokton stayed and the SR has gone.

The other "best" solution for me was getting a 1989 Leica Summilux 35 1.4 VII, now that's truly a lovely lens, it pairs duties with the Nokton nicely.

Edited May 25, 2024 by Smudgerer
adjective swap!

[hansvons]

17 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

The other "best" solution for me was getting a 1989 Leica Summilux 35 1.4 VII, now that's truly a great lens, that pairs duties with the Nokton nicely.

Oh no. Thought I got over the Summilux itch. Damn.

[Smudgerer]

29 minutes ago, hansvons said:

Oh no. Thought I got over the Summilux itch. Damn.

'fraid not!............there's no escape.

Edited May 25, 2024 by Smudgerer

[BWColor]

The Ultron II is suppose to be a good lens.  I went with the slightly larger Apo Lanthar for my M11.  My M6TTL loves the small, sharp, contrast Zeiss 35mm Biogon ZM.  I prefer the f/2.8 for its size and sharpness wide open vs the faster f/2.0.  For speed, sharp, but bigger … the f/1.4 ZM.  The little Zeiss was my primary lens for film.

[Loovic]

Well I got my M6 and the Ultron. The condition of the camera was better than I expected; described as "very good condition" it is actually almost mint. Anyway I loaded with FP4 and shot 24 exposures, developed in DD-X and scanned with my Z7. I am more than pleased with the lens choice, the overall contrast looks really good – at least for my choice of image – the micro-contrast also looks really good, so very happy with the Ultron. The camera is a real joy to hold and use, the meter seems very accurate; I had no trouble loading and shooting. Perhaps a little awkward at first with no right hand grip, I found the film rewind lever sometimes in the way, and it is heavier than I imagined. The lens operation I got to grips with pretty quickly and the whole set-up is really small and unobtrusive – not like my Pentax 67II.

Herewith a couple of shots from my first shoot.

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[Fotoklaus]

You made a good choice. And i prefer the f2 over the f1.4 due to size and weicht.

[Loovic]

My initial thoughts on its size and operation are really good. I believe the images are more modern/clinical than some of the vintage Leica lenses that are really popular but so far I like the image quality and contrast.

It will be interesting to compare these images against some older vintage glass I have: Canon 50mm 1.4 LTM and the 35mm f2 – I use on a Canon P.

I have also ordered an adaptor for the latter to fit the M – no, I did not buy a cheap one!

[hansvons]

22 hours ago, Loovic said:

the meter seems very accurate;

Yes, it is. Still bear in mind that the light meter is somewhat of a wide-spread spot meter. Keeping out the sky for metering is in many occasions best practice. 

I find your images quite close to what I get with the 35mm Summarit. Sharp, straight, not clinical because it’s film, after all. 

Regarding the advancing lever: I pull the trigger, then immediately reload the next frame, and bring the lever back to its regular idle position—all in one go. That way, I’m always prepared for the next shot and have the lever out of the way.

Edited June 2, 2024 by hansvons

[onelensman]

I have used the Canon LTM 35mm f2 and 50mm f1.4 lenses on Leica M film bodies for decades and the results on film and print look pretty much the same as those shot with the Leitz equivalent lenses I own

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[Loovic]

Does the lens adaptor i.e. LTM to M mount automatically select the correct framelines in the viewfinder?

Good to hear from someone who uses Canon on the M. 

Matt Osborne of Mr. Leica also is very complimentary about these Canon lenses for his work on both digital and film... 

onelensman have you used an Canon 85mm f1.9 – which I also have.

[onelensman]

The Leitz and also generic screw to bayonet adapters I use bring up the appropriate framelines perfectly

I have the Canon LTM 85mm f1.8 lens which is very sharp and on par with the Nikkor Auto 85mm f1.8 SLR lens I have