M11M: volatile exposure adjustment when magnifying 100%

[wolan]

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Hi,

I shoot my M11m mostly with EVF. When magnifying on a dark area of the frame for precise focusing the camera for something like half a second raises the exposure considerably, as if the exposure gets recalculated for the small portion now visible in the EVF. That is really good for focussing but unfortunately that lasts for a few milliseconds and then the EVF becomes dark again.

Is there a way to control this?

Thanks

 

Edited May 11, 2024 by wolan

[algrove]

Are you talking about when moving the focus ring on an M lens?

[wolan]

Am 23.5.2024 um 22:50 schrieb algrove:

Are you talking about when moving the focus ring on an M lens?

No, I first focus through the EVF, then for precise focus I magnify 100% on a spot in a darker area .The the exposure is raised for a fraction of second, but then it gets to the level of exposure it was before magnifying, making it hard to focus. I'd like that temporary elevation of the exposure to be active until I zoom back.

Thanks

[algrove]

2 hours ago, wolan said:

No, I first focus through the EVF, then for precise focus I magnify 100% on a spot in a darker area .The the exposure is raised for a fraction of second, but then it gets to the level of exposure it was before magnifying, making it hard to focus. I'd like that temporary elevation of the exposure to be active until I zoom back.

Thanks

Will have to try it and then perhaps can make meaningful comment.

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, wolan said:

No, I first focus through the EVF, then for precise focus I magnify 100% on a spot in a darker area .The the exposure is raised for a fraction of second, but then it gets to the level of exposure it was before magnifying, making it hard to focus. I'd like that temporary elevation of the exposure to be active until I zoom back.

Thanks

If you disregard the precise focusing tool that you paid a lot of money for, you should accept that the EVF is but an accessory, basically meant to compensate for conditions that the RF is not suitable for, like macro, extreme focal lengths, etc. It can never be as versatile as a dedicated EVF camera. I strongly advise you to learn to use the rangefinder: faster, more practical  and more precise, so you don't need the procedure that you are describing. 

[wolan]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

If you disregard the precise focusing tool that you paid a lot of money for, you should accept that the EVF is but an accessory, basically meant to compensate for conditions that the RF is not suitable for, like macro, extreme focal lengths, etc. It can never be as versatile as a dedicated EVF camera. I strongly advise you to learn to use the rangefinder: faster, more practical  and more precise, so you don't need the procedure that you are describing. 

Precise focusing tool? With all due respect, RF is useless for me.

• it works only with RF coupled lenses, no way with vintage lenses, which I use a lot
• good luck shooting WO with f1.x lenses
• good luck with 135mm lenses too
• most of the RF coupled lenses get in the way (they call it viewfinder blockage, I call it; give up on correctly composing the scene)
• RF works, with above limitations, when correctly calibrated...
• ...if that is not the case, you need to send back the camera for service $$$
• can't really use lens filters with RF
• new generation CF M lenses require LV or EVF anyway below 0.7m

 

[wolan]

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Update: If the option Exposure Preview is set to Shutter Button Half Pressed, then I basically get what I want, however I do not like I have to give up on the permanent exposure preview.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2024 by wolan

[jaapv]

I guess I had excellent luck the last 45 years. I even did BIF with a 135 and M8. I can focus 270 mm through he rangefinder. No problems at all with my vintage lenses, including Canon LTM. All a matter of practice and proper technique. Calibration, I needed it twice in all that time at the local repair shop. Cost of peanuts. My cameras work perfectly well with filters… 
But hey! Nobody puts a pistol to your head to buy a camera that does not suit you. If you like focusing through an EVF there is plenty of choice in wonderful cameras.  Why punish yourself with a half-baked solution? 

16 minutes ago, wolan said:

Precise focusing tool? With all due respect, RF is useless for me.

• it works only with RF coupled lenses, no way with vintage lenses, which I use a lot
• good luck shooting WO with f1.x lenses
• good luck with 135mm lenses too
• most of the RF coupled lenses get in the way (they call it viewfinder blockage, I call it; give up on correctly composing the scene)
• RF works, with above limitations, when correctly calibrated...
• ...if that is not the case, you need to send back the camera for service $$$
• can't really use lens filters with RF
• new generation CF M lenses require LV or EVF anyway below 0.7m

 

 

[wolan]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

I guess I had excellent luck the last 45 years. I even did BIF with a 135 and M8. I can focus 270 mm through he rangefinder… All a matter of practice and proper technique. Calibration ( I Neede it twice as n all that time army local repair shop. Cost of as peanuts. But hey! Nobody puts a pistol to your head to buy a camera that does not suit you. If you like focusing through an EVF there is plenty of choice in wonderful cameras.  Why punish yourself?  

 

Ok, I'll give it a try again as you suggest.

The only reason I am sticking to the M system is indeed the fantastic image quality. I have tried the SLs, and yes, spectacular EVF, fantastic focusing experience, but the files are not quite there in terms of color, contrast and overall rendering.  

I guess I belong to that category of heretics, who would be happy with a RF-less or enhanced-RF version of the M system. The rumours about the M12 seem to indicate a development in that direction...

Good night 

Edited May 29, 2024 by wolan

[tom0511]

Different experience here. IMO SL lenses beat M lenses overall if IQ is just the factor.

I can't see any other reason to use a Leica M than the small size and the rangefinder/optical finder.

But I agree that the rangefinder makes mostly sense with wider lenses and not so much if you want to shoot super shallow dof.

 

[IkarusJohn]

On 5/12/2024 at 10:15 AM, wolan said:

Hi,

I shoot my M11m mostly with EVF. When magnifying on a dark area of the frame for precise focusing the camera for something like half a second raises the exposure considerably, as if the exposure gets recalculated for the small portion now visible in the EVF. That is really good for focussing but unfortunately that lasts for a few milliseconds and then the EVF becomes dark again.

Is there a way to control this?

Thanks

 

Yep, I’ve noticed the same thing.

Not sure why this devolved into the virtues of the optical viewfinder.  I suspect that the brief over-exposed image just reflects the time taken to process the exposure simulation.

This does raise an issue specific to M lenses, with their lack of automatic aperture stop down.  With SLRs, the focusing was always with the lens wide open.  When you fired the shutter, the aperture then stopped down to the exxposure, then opened again.  Most cameras had a depth of field preview button, which stopped the aperture down, which I found largely useless.  The expsoure simulation with the EVF is only an approximation, but it’s a pretty good one.  

This has raised many suggestions on the forum that you have to focus wide open when using an EVF, then stop down manually before firing the shutter.  Assuming your lens doesn’t have focus shift, this will place the best plane of focus at your subject.

After using the EVF and EVF based cameras for some years, I’m reasonably agnostic about the benefits of each.  No issue using the SL and X2D with native lenses.  With M lenses, things can get a bit tricky - notably accurate focusing with wides.  Conversely, the EVF is much better for framing wides and focusing telephotos.  On balance, I prefer using the OVF with my M10-D (no other option with my film M and Monochrom). 

But, the EVF is invaluable with its auto-magnification, exposure simulation and ability to move the magnification point (I disagree with those who sing the benefits of the accuracy of OVF focusing, then focus and recompose - every time you rotate the camera, your best plane of focus moves behind the subject; you can them move your head back, but that’s replacing accuracy with guess work).

In short - there are benefits with both.  It’s worth coming to grips with the OVF, but that won’t obviate the benefits of the EVF, and vice versa.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, wolan said:

Ok, I'll give it a try again as you suggest.

The only reason I am sticking to the M system is indeed the fantastic image quality. I have tried the SLs, and yes, spectacular EVF, fantastic focusing experience, but the files are not quite there in terms of color, contrast and overall rendering.  

I guess I belong to that category of heretics, who would be happy with a RF-less or enhanced-RF version of the M system. The rumours about the M12 seem to indicate a development in that direction...

Good night 

 Heretic? Well, we all need to climb our own stairway to Heaven. It is just that I always feel it a bit of a pity when people are blind to the attractions of one system or another. Like John, I am RFand EVF agnostic by now, coming from an M and R background, and it always saddens me to see somebody rejecting one or the other on spurious grounds. To Wolan I say: have your whole system calibrated by somebody like Will van Manen  - lenses designed for film often need recalibration for sensor use -  and give your EVF to your wife to hide for a month, and switch off chimping. You may well hate it for the first fortnight, but in the end you'll be pleasantly surprised.  

[BWColor]

Maybe give an SL-3 a try.  Trying to work around the primary feature of the M series seems to be a situation where you are using the wrong tool for your mode of shooting.  The SL-3 and the very capable A7Rv can use a great variety of third party ‘adapted’ lenses and use the same sensor as the M11.  I use the Sony because it allows me to use some of the best lenses ever made, the Zeiss Loxia lenses and the EVF offers a much clearer view of the subject than any Leica.  My M11 is a monochrom and use the Visoflex 2 with 50mm f/1.2 and 90mm f/2.0.

Edited June 1, 2024 by BWColor
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