continuing my M 262 journey

[FlickM]

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It's a while since I posted, so you may have forgotten my posts a couple of months back when I first got my M 262. My journey and learning curve with the camera continue. I've got my eyes sorted and am now using contact lenses to correct my astigmatism and improve my close vision, (though I still miss focus from time to time, which I think is a matter of practice). This has made a huge difference to using the range finder patch. I really appreciate the advice some of you gave me back in the beginning. I'm really pleased with the latitude for correction on the RAW files from the camera: I've retrieved detail from a couple of shots that were really over exposed, (not included here) and they look absolutely fine. It was unexpected, as everything I've read suggests that you can rescue under exposed files but not over exposed. 

 I'm also getting to know the Elmar 90mm f4, which I bought on eBay a while back, and include some test shots taken in the garden using that lens - focus practice, so not fine art.

Now for some advice please. I have the 90mm, as detailed above, and the Voigtlander Heliar 40mm f2.8. I would like something wider than 40 and something longer than 90. Any suggestions for third party not massively expensive, or elderly cheap Leica lenses that would fit the bill and give decent results? I really don't like 35mm and 28mm. I've sold my Q2 because that focal length just isn't me. 

Anyway, thanks in advance,

Flick

EDIT: I did use the search function for lenses but didn't manage to filter out anything useful to me -

 

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Edited April 25, 2024 by FlickM

[jankap]

Beautiful pictures you have shot.

40mm and 90mm, that is a factor 2. I - for me - would look in the areas 20mm and 180mm then.

I use wide lenses far more often than long lenses. On trips, I take a 15mm, 50mm and 135mm with me.

But I don't hesitate to crop my pictures. If you eat an excellent meal, you don't bother what pans or pots were used, either.

I have a 6000 x 4000 camera. Prints in A3+ need 6600 x 4400 pixels (Epson: 360 pixel/inch). There are ways to enlarge these numbers.😉

Edited April 25, 2024 by jankap

[Datsch]

I also have a 262 (The M-D variant) and have been trying to decide just this morning between 21mm and 24mm. There's not much in it. 21mm does get a little freaky but maybe that's a good thing. 24mm somehow feels pretty much like 28mm . Voigltander have several 21mm but I am leaning to trying my first actual Leica lens as the 21SEM and 24 Elmar seem to be extremely sharp and capable lenses.

I'm not sure I would get on with 135mm with its tiny framelines! 

[FlickM]

Just now, jankap said:

40mm and 90mm, that is a factor 2. I - for me - would look in the areas 20mm and 180mm then.

I use wide lenses far more often than long lenses. On trips, I take a 15mm, 50mm and 135mm with me.

But I don't hesitate to crop my pictures. If you eat an excellent meal, you don't bother what pans or pots were used, either.

I have a 6000 x 4000 camera. Prints in A3+ need 6600 x 4400 pixels (Epson: 360 pixel/inch). There are ways to enlarge these numbers.😉

Thanks for this. Yes, I'm happy to crop, have done so since film days, and I can use the Lightroom enhance feature to enlarge my files after cropping (which I sometimes do for stock files), but it's nice to get it right in camera where possible. Cropping 24MP and then enhancing to enlarge isn't quite the same as taking the picture to fit, or having more MP to crop with.

I was thinking of around 20mm. I'm researching but the possibles are pretty expensive. I think 180mm is a bit longer than I want, ideally. Around 135 would be good, but the old affordable Leicas in this range are soft, according to reviews. I really like 24mm but have this with my Fuji X-T5 so don't really want to double up. 

[FlickM]

7 minutes ago, Datsch said:

I also have a 262 (The M-D variant) and have been trying to decide just this morning between 21mm and 24mm. There's not much in it. 21mm does get a little freaky but maybe that's a good thing. 24mm somehow feels pretty much like 28mm . Voigltander have several 21mm but I am leaning to trying my first actual Leica lens as the 21SEM and 24 Elmar seem to be extremely sharp and capable lenses.

I'm not sure I would get on with 135mm with its tiny framelines! 

I like 20/21mm, but I like 24mm too but have that with my Fuji X-T5, so don't want to duplicate focal lengths between systems too much.Having said that, I didn't know there was a 24mm Elmar so will look out for that and consider it as an option- thank you! I know 24 and 28 are close, but I really don't like 28, it's a subtle thing. And I did think of the frameline size, but was hoping I could work with it somehow. Anyway, I want to go wider before longer. 

I think I would have loved the MD, but I was actually lucky to get a really good M262 for £2000 on eBay, so went with that (they're getting hard to find). I only use the back screen for menus, so could have managed without it quite happily. Absolutely love the colours from the sensor too. My Q2 was too magenta so I had to correct that in Lightroom.

Edited April 25, 2024 by FlickM

[FlickM]

17 minutes ago, jankap said:

Beautiful pictures you have shot.

 

Forgot to say thank you!!! 😊

[andybarton]

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35 minutes ago, FlickM said:

I didn't know there was a 24mm Elmar so will look out for that and consider it as an option

Also have a look at a 24 Elmarit if you can. It's a superb lens. A bit older than some, but mine has almost taken up residence on my M240.

[FlickM]

42 minutes ago, Datsch said:

24 Elmar seem to be extremely sharp and capable lenses.

 

just seen the price of this 😵‍💫

[FlickM]

Just now, andybarton said:

Also have a look at a 24 Elmarit if you can. It's a superb lens. A bit older than some, but mine has almost taken up residence on my M240.

I looked on eBay. £1000!!! A bit out of my price range, sadly - unless they can be picked up cheaper

[andybarton]

That's a real bargain in Leica-land 

IIRC, I paid about £700 for mine, but that will be ten years ago.

Neither of my "go to" dealers (Manchester/London) have any M mount 24mm in stock. Wise people must be keeping hold of them. There is a very nice looking 21mm Elmarit for less than £850 in London though.

[FlickM]

3 minutes ago, andybarton said:

That's a real bargain in Leica-land 

IIRC, I paid about £700 for mine, but that will be ten years ago.

Neither of my "go to" dealers (Manchester/London) have any M mount 24mm in stock. Wise people must be keeping hold of them. There is a very nice looking 21mm Elmarit for less than £1000 in Manchester though.

Alas, I can't stretch to that, I'm afraid I'm a Leica user on a budget (if that's not a contradiction in terms!). I'm looking at third party lenses really. I was lucky that the 90mm Elmar can be had so cheaply and gives such nice results. I'm looking at Voigtlander alternatives currently, and might even read some reviews on some of the better Chinese ones.

[andybarton]

I was having coffee with another forum member a couple of weeks ago and he had a very nicely made Chinese lens. A 35 f1.4 I think it was. 

They do make some quality lenses that’s for sure. 

Good luck!

[FlickM]

9 minutes ago, andybarton said:

I was having coffee with another forum member a couple of weeks ago and he had a very nicely made Chinese lens. A 35 f1.4 I think it was. 

They do make some quality lenses that’s for sure. 

Good luck!

thank you, yes, I'm reading reviews as we speak. I will also look at Voigtlander as I'm so happy with my Heliar 40mm 2.8

[FlickM]

OK everyone, update: I've just bought a Voigtlander Color-Skopar 21mm f/4 VM P used from MPB for under £300 including shipping. This lens has fantastic reviews right across the board. It's not very fast, but I don't shoot much in low light situations, so i can live with it or use my Fuji kit for night photos.

As ever, thanks for all the responses and help -

[dpitt]

Your quest will be easier on the long end. Leica M lenses get cheaper the longer they get. The Leica Elmar 135 F4 is a real bargain for its beautiful vintage rendering. Plenty of sharpness even wide open.

If you want to spend a little more the Tele-Elmar 135 F4.0 is even better (bit more modern, but not ASPH)

Both of these are very useful on the rangefinder and not too heavy.

If you want to go for portrait like lenses, then I recommend the goggled 135mm Elmarit F2.8
It is heavy and looks a bit funny with the goggles, but it renders beautifully. It magnifies the viewer 1.4x and brings up the 90mm frames, so it is also surprisingly easy to focus for such a fast long lens. When stopped down it is as sharp as the Elmar.

All mentioned lenses are bargains in Leica land, really ... from 100£ to 300£ depending on condition I guess.

Leica M lenses do not go beyond 135mm, so cropping a bit may be necessary. The EVF models can focus longer focal lengths but I prefer to leave the long tele and real macro work (other than flowers and stuff) for my Leica SL or similar.

PS:
There is always the option of Visoflex and Visoflex lenses. The Visoflex III is compatible with digital rangefinders. If you are into vintage there are some real bargains for macro and long tele, although the lenses are from the 50s and 60s.

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Edited April 25, 2024 by dpitt

[FlickM]

17 minutes ago, dpitt said:

Your quest will be easier on the long end. Leica M lenses get cheaper the longer they get. The Leica Elmar 135 F4 is a real bargain for its beautiful vintage rendering. Plenty of sharpness even wide open.

If you want to spend a little more the Tele-Elmar 135 F4.0 is even better (bit more modern, but not ASPH)

Both of these are very useful on the rangefinder and not too heavy.

If you want to go for portrait like lenses, then I recommend the goggled 135mm Elmarit F2.8
It is heavy and looks a bit funny with the goggles, but it renders beautifully. It magnifies the viewer 1.4x and brings up the 90mm frames, so it is also surprisingly easy to focus for such a fast long lens. When stopped down it is as sharp as the Elmar.

All mentioned lenses are bargains in Leica land, really ... from 100£ to 300£ depending on condition I guess.

Leica M lenses do not go beyond 135mm, so cropping a bit may be necessary. The EVF models can focus longer focal lengths but I prefer to leave the long tele and real macro work (other than flowers and stuff) for my Leica SL or similar.

PS:
There is always the option of Visoflex and Visoflex lenses. The Visoflex III is compatible with digital rangefinders. If you are into vintage there are some real bargains for macro and long tele, although the lenses are from the 50s and 60s.

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Thanks Dirk, very comprehensive and useful. I'm still looking at the elmar 135 options. I've now bought a Voigtlander Color-Skopar 21mm f/4 VM P and will see how I get on with the magenta corners and vignetting.

[espelt]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb dpitt:

If you want to go for portrait like lenses, then I recommend the goggled 135mm Elmarit F2.8

Yes, the 135 / 2.8 Elmarit is a very nice lens in terms of imaging performance. And it's not expensive for a Leitz. I found my copy for 150 euros. It's been a few years. But they haven't risen that much in price. Now comes the “but”: The parts are really heavy. And not really handy. This is already a work in progress on the M. And even with glasses, focusing is a bit of a matter of luck. Apart from the tiny viewfinder image, the M with lens becomes so heavy that you start to shake a little when you hold the camera. And with the focal length, all it takes is a tiny pan - and everything is out of focus. I only take the lens with me every now and then at a concert. When you don't have a chance to get closer.
For me the M is the camera for lenses up to 75 mm. Or better up to 50 mm. Then it is really handy and fast. The long focal lengths are the playground of the SLR.

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M6 . Elmarit 135mm 2.8 . HP5 in HC 110

[Datsch]

So I was looking at external viewfinders for 21mm and some of them (Leica, Zeiss) are pretty pricey but I was considering this one, no idea if it's any good: https://www.cliftoncameras.co.uk/ttartisan-viewfinder-for-21mm?srsltid=AfmBOoqpD-0hEN6JC68hEViFScqoY84DKokyp_MdiQTQ2vp364_57VLUcsk

Also good ol' Ken Rockwell has some useful thoughts on 21mm OVFs too: https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/21mm-finders.htm

[pippy]

22 hours ago, FlickM said:

...Around 135 would be good, but the old affordable Leicas in this range are soft, according to reviews...

Lovely photographs, Flick, and lovely flowers too!

As far as the older 135mm lenses are concerned; I'm not sure which reviews you have read but, really, the only 135 Leitz lens whose rendering could be described as 'soft' would be the f4.5 Hektor(*). Apart from that one, though, they are all excelllent performers and most of which can be had for a very modest outlay.

Have a look through this review of the 135mm f4.0 Elmar by good old Ken Rockwell. There is also a 'Compared' section in the review where you might have a look at his reviews of the other 135 lenses available (including the Hektor);

https://kenrockwell.com/leica/135mm-f4.htm#compared

Just out of curiosity I've had a quick peek at Peter Loy's stock list and currently he has an example of the Elmar in M mount ("Condition 4-5/E {minor dust, aperture not 100% smooth}. c.1961. Tested - produces excellent quality images") on offer for £159.

FWIW if you are not after 'perfection' there is another London dealership offering a Hektor - "Smooth focusing. Noticeable internal haze inside the optics" - for the princely sum of £29...

Philip.

* One review of this lens said something like "Max Berek (Leitz' lens designer) named the 'Hektor' after his dog......and the lens performs in just such a fashion..."...

EDIT : I forgot to say I'm delighted to read that you have resolved the issue with your vision; great to hear the contacts are working well for you!

Edited April 26, 2024 by pippy

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[FlickM]

4 hours ago, espelt said:

Yes, the 135 / 2.8 Elmarit is a very nice lens in terms of imaging performance. And it's not expensive for a Leitz. I found my copy for 150 euros. It's been a few years. But they haven't risen that much in price. Now comes the “but”: The parts are really heavy. And not really handy. This is already a work in progress on the M. And even with glasses, focusing is a bit of a matter of luck. Apart from the tiny viewfinder image, the M with lens becomes so heavy that you start to shake a little when you hold the camera. And with the focal length, all it takes is a tiny pan - and everything is out of focus. I only take the lens with me every now and then at a concert. When you don't have a chance to get closer.
For me the M is the camera for lenses up to 75 mm. Or better up to 50 mm. Then it is really handy and fast. The long focal lengths are the playground of the SLR.

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M6 . Elmarit 135mm 2.8 . HP5 in HC 110

I get what you're saying about longer focal lengths, but so far I've found the 90 f4 Elmar very accomodating - but I'm already coming round to possibly abandoning the idea of longer. Ahem, Fujifilm APSc user here, and longer lenses play nicely with that. My days of heaving around an SLR and lenses are well over - my last SLR was the Kodak 14nx, and that's some decades in the past. Love your image here