Heads up for Capture One Pro users on Mac OS 14.3 and lower: DO NOT UPGRADE

[dpitt]

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It seems that I reached the limit of my perpetual C1P license

I updated to Mac OS 14.4.1 a few days ago and now found out that this breaks my C1P v23 (16.2.6) version. This is only certified for Mac OS 14.0 and lower it seems.
My C1P still starts up but feels sluggish and worse, some functionality is broken. In particular the healing and cloning tool does not work. I have contacted  Capture One and not much help there. They informed me that the earliest version to support Mac OS 14.4 is 16.3.8

This means that after little more than a year I would have to upgrade my perpetual license (80%) discount or subscribe (also 89% on first year) if I want to keep using the latest Mac OS.
Since I am not a pro and my hardware is getting older I decided to revert my system back to Mac OS 14.3 like it was before the update. My C1P seemed to cope fine with that one...
I will be stuck on that MacOS version until my next hardware update and then decide about C1P.

Of course I am a bit disappointed. I know Apple Mac OS is breaking software sooner than Windows does, but I would expect some support for "perpetual" products with patches for current Mac OS for at least a few years. I am happy with missing out on functionality of newer versions like the AI selection tools, but losing functionality that was already in my version is a different matter.

So if you are still on Mac OS 14.3 and lower, do not upgrade. At least be prepared to revert back if your C1P breaks. Some even report frequent crashes on Sonoma (Mac OS 14)

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[jaapv]

On 4/14/2024 at 4:44 PM, dpitt said:

It seems that I reached the limit of my perpetual C1P license

I updated to Mac OS 14.4.1 a few days ago and now found out that this breaks my C1P v23 (16.2.6) version. This is only certified for Mac OS 14.0 and lower it seems.
My C1P still starts up but feels sluggish and worse, some functionality is broken. In particular the healing and cloning tool does not work. I have contacted  Capture One and not much help there. They informed me that the earliest version to support Mac OS 14.4 is 16.3.8

This means that after little more than a year I would have to upgrade my perpetual license (80%) discount or subscribe (also 89% on first year) if I want to keep using the latest Mac OS.
Since I am not a pro and my hardware is getting older I decided to revert my system back to Mac OS 14.3 like it was before the update. My C1P seemed to cope fine with that one...
I will be stuck on that MacOS version until my next hardware update and then decide about C1P.

Of course I am a bit disappointed. I know Apple Mac OS is breaking software sooner than Windows does, but I would expect some support for "perpetual" products with patches for current Mac OS for at least a few years. I am happy with missing out on functionality of newer versions like the AI selection tools, but losing functionality that was already in my version is a different matter.

So if you are still on Mac OS 14.3 and lower, do not upgrade. At least be prepared to revert back if your C1P breaks. Some even report frequent crashes on Sonoma (Mac OS 14)

Why don't you run your Mac with a dual OS version? 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/118282

[Anbaric]

On 4/14/2024 at 3:44 PM, dpitt said:

Of course I am a bit disappointed. I know Apple Mac OS is breaking software sooner than Windows does, but I would expect some support for "perpetual" products with patches for current Mac OS for at least a few years. I am happy with missing out on functionality of newer versions like the AI selection tools, but losing functionality that was already in my version is a different matter.

C1 doesn't care, sadly. Since they were bought out by a private equity company, the corporate strategy has been to squeeze as much as possible out of their customers by pushing everyone towards subscriptions. The perpetual licence versions now have ludicrously short support periods, and they flicked a remote kill switch on recent versions of their free product, Capture One Express, so that they stopped working at short notice even if you had already installed them. It doesn't help that Apple has a pretty cavalier attitude towards backwards compatibility. I can use some 20 year old packages on Windows 11, which would seem like necromancy on macOS.

[dpitt]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Why don't you run your Mac with a dual OS version? 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/118282

Yes, I have experience with that and I have done so in the past. It would allow me to keep using the current OS and updating it to the point my hardware will be incompatible. In fact I already have this option in the form of an older Macbook Pro and Mac Mini that both can not upgrade to Sonoma.

For several reasons I think that I will not do so in this case:

1. It is very hard to downgrade a system if the next upgrade breaks an other piece of software. In fact that is what a dual system is intended to be used for. As a temporary drive to test out a newer OS before actually using it for everyday stuff. I was already on Mac OS 14.3.1 so I thought it was pretty safe to upgrade as long as I stayed on Sonoma... Not so much...
   If you want to keep using 2 very different OSes on the same Mac and switch back and forth, these newer Macs might get into real security trouble if the newer system messes up security to a point that it forces you to erase the complete HD.
2. I am happy with Mac OS 14.3.1 which I could revert to easily now. It just involved restoring my Mac data to the state of a few days ago and then adding the differences by hand. if I keep using and updating Mac OS for a while it gets very hard to revert back to 14.3.1 if something else breaks at the next update. who knows how much data I will have to fix by hand (i.e. copy over the extra changes in Finder or carefully restoring files if I know they are compatible with 14.3.1)
   In a perfect world  I would add a third Mac OS that works for an other issue, but that would complicate things even more.
   One of the things I found hard now, was actually get hold of and install a slightly older Sonoma version than the current one. Installing 14.4.1 is now very easy, can be done with App Store or other standard means, but getting to 14.3.1 involved terminal use and making a bootable installer for that specific version, then erasing my disk and do a fresh install. After that time machine refuses to restore to a point further than 14.3.1 when you use migration assistant. So after that you are on your own patching the files, preferences and catalogs to the latest state.
3. It would take me too far to explain, but currently I have 1 main admin account and 6 normal user accounts that I use on a regular base. Restoring (resetting) all these is a PITA. First Apple assigns a nice, long and complicated 😱, password that needs to be used at first login to reset the password... When you manage to enter that correctly, you have to set up security again for things like Apple ID, Google account... Most involve 2 way security...
   This  takes quite some time.
4. I think my 2019 Macbook Pro will be incompatible with the next major Mac OS upgrade anyway, so I do not mind staying on Mac OS 14.3.1 until I will upgrade my hardware. And then I will have to decide what to do with my broken 'Perpetually' Licensed C1P version.
   I can understand that software 'rots' and that you have to let go at some point, but Apple should make sure that what works on Mac OS 14.0 keeps working after any minor upgrade IMO, adding functionality is fine of course, but removing or breaking functionality is hard enough to deal with if it happens on a major update and by bugs in minor upgrades.

 

@Anbaric Without insight in the actual software issue it is hard to know who is to blame. Maybe C1P did not certify my version for MacOS 14.0 because they knew this OS would break things and I was just lucky that did not happen until now. Or Apple introduced some bugs (or at least unintended functional changes) in this latest upgrade that break it by accident. It could be worth it to keep trying the next Mac OS updates on a different partition to see if they fix the issue in C1P.
I can relate to Capture One because I was once n the same position, writing software for Mac and PC. Mac was more fun, but harder to maintain in the long run because Apple takes very drastic steps causing lots of rewrites. Windows is easier on rewrites, but less consistent and less predictable. Some fundamental issues stay in Windows  for a long time because of backward compatibility... Apple is in a better position to make radical changes because they develop a larger portion of the OS and software themselves, and they can anticipate in their hardware design some changes....
Having the power to force OS upgrades on users buying new hardware also helps in making aggressive steps forward, but it is one of the reasons third party software companies push for subscription models. Having all users on the same software version helps coping with changes compared to supporting users on different perpetual versions...
For the moment I am happy that C1P still offers a 'perpetual' license. That works fine for users like me who do not or can not keep up with the hardware and software 'rat race' of updates.

Edited April 16, 2024 by dpitt

[ianforber]

Thanks for the warning. My 2017 MacBook Pro can’t upgrade to Sonoma. I’ve been thinking of getting a Mac mini as the laptops is a bit sluggish with DxO PR3 and Nik FX software but I might wait awhile. 

[dpitt]

2 hours ago, ianforber said:

Thanks for the warning. My 2017 MacBook Pro can’t upgrade to Sonoma. I’ve been thinking of getting a Mac mini as the laptops is a bit sluggish with DxO PR3 and Nik FX software but I might wait awhile. 

I can confirm that I succesfully downgraded my MacOS to 14.3.1 (current version of MacOS is 14.4.1) and that fixes my C1P version (v16.2.6), at least for what I have used most, not sure if there are some issues hiding in modules that I did not use yet. I hope not, and I intend to stick with this Mac OS for as long as I can.

You can buy current hardware and then downgrade to Sonoma 14.3.1 or earlier before migrating all your stuff. But as said that is not a straightforward process. So if your really want to upgrade, you could buy a Mac mini, but since it is a Apple Silicon, YMMV with v16.2.6.
Also, this option will not be available for long because soon (probably June 2024 WWDC) all new Mac hardware will ship with MacOS 15 and will not run any Sonoma (Mac OS 14) version.

Actually, if you want to upgrade for speed, my advice would be to buy one of the last Intel based Macs on the second hand market and run Mac OS Ventura (OS 13 any version) or Sonoma (lower than 14.3.1) on that.

Edited April 19, 2024 by dpitt

[ianforber]

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20 hours ago, dpitt said:

I can confirm that I succesfully downgraded my MacOS to 14.3.1 (current version of MacOS is 14.4.1) and that fixes my C1P version (v16.2.6), at least for what I have used most, not sure if there are some issues hiding in modules that I did not use yet. I hope not, and I intend to stick with this Mac OS for as long as I can.

You can buy current hardware and then downgrade to Sonoma 14.3.1 or earlier before migrating all your stuff. But as said that is not a straightforward process. So if your really want to upgrade, you could buy a Mac mini, but since it is a Apple Silicon, YMMV with v16.2.6.
Also, this option will not be available for long because soon (probably June 2024 WWDC) all new Mac hardware will ship with MacOS 15 and will not run any Sonoma (Mac OS 14) version.

Actually, if you want to upgrade for speed, my advice would be to buy one of the last Intel based Macs on the second hand market and run Mac OS Ventura (OS 13 any version) or Sonoma (lower than 14.3.1) on that.

Thank you. I’m still on Mac OS 13. I think I’ll wait until the Mac mini is M3 and I’m confident I can work with C1. 

[dpitt]

1 hour ago, ianforber said:

I’ll wait  ... I’m confident I can work with C1. 

Just to be clear. If you purchase the latest C1P version now or use a subscription plan C1P works fine with Mac OS 14 (current version)

Edited April 20, 2024 by dpitt

[ianforber]

4 hours ago, dpitt said:

Just to be clear. If you purchase the latest C1P version now or use a subscription plan C1P works fine with Mac OS 14 (current version)

Im on the subscription plan but my computer isn’t able to upgrade to OS 14. DxO have spent months getting my Nik FX v6 software to work, both as standalone apps and as plug-ins to C1 so I’m happy to wait for a bit anyway. 

[JamieDumont]

I'm currently running macOS v14.4.1 (23E224) with C1 v16.2.6.7 on a perpetual license and can't say that I've noticed any issues. Just tested healing and cloning specifically to check and it worked perfectly.

Don't know what to suggest. In what way do these two tools not work? Performance issues could be many things, but broken tools probably give a better picture as to what's going on.

[dpitt]

16 hours ago, JamieDumont said:

I'm currently running macOS v14.4.1 (23E224) with C1 v16.2.6.7 on a perpetual license and can't say that I've noticed any issues. Just tested healing and cloning specifically to check and it worked perfectly.

Don't know what to suggest. In what way do these two tools not work? Performance issues could be many things, but broken tools probably give a better picture as to what's going on.

I am also on C1P 16.2.6.7.

I definitely know that on my Macbook Pro 2019, cloning and and healing are unusable in C1P after the Mac OS update. And when I went back to Mac OS 14.3.1 the same Capture one version worked again as it should.
On Mac OS 14.4.1, when I try to heal something, I can use the healing brush, but nothing changes in the image. When I leave the healing tool, the healing takes place. The same with the cloning tool. So I lost the option to adjust the source of both healing and cloning while getting feedback... Also when I re-enter the healing tool the cloned area's are showing blanc/unhealed. That makes it unusable for me. I would have to go in/out healing multiple times and work blindly for every adjustment that I need to make.

Maybe you are working on a Apple Silicon Mac? Or on a more recent model with a different Graphics card... Not sure what is going wrong, but there is no help to be expected from Capture One to fix this, since 16.3.8 is the earliest version they have certified for Mac OS 14.4
 

 

[JamieDumont]

I think you've nailed it and it's the architecture. As soon as you said 2019 MBP I thought so too, as I'm on a 2020 M1 MBP.

I know the perpetual license is why many people use Capture One — and I currently have one too — but I've always maintained as a developer and a customer that subscriptions make sense for software both from a technical and a business perspective. I'm not going to open a can of worms and try to convince anyone of that, but it's exactly situations like this that a subscription does away with.