SL3-P without video and / or SL3-P monochrome

[Geoff C. Bassett]

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6 hours ago, Rob Cale said:

Hi SL users,

after the SL3 is available, I’m still disappointed. On the M side we have photo purism available, while on the SL side with all the great lenses we still see just photo/video cameras. Zwitters that are kind of useful and well build. But build not in the terms of the original Leica purism for the real photographer.

I’m looking for SL(3)-P with all that useless video stuff stripped. Maybe even in a monochrome version. And of course with the choice of a silver body. Maybe Leica could even think of a build-to-order-SL-series that offers the clients all directions. That should not be a big deal and I would wait some month after an order has been placed.

Who has an idea how and whom to approach in Wetzlar to discuss this?

Cheers

Rob

To echo others, Leica would charge you more for this.

You also clearly have no idea how product development works. More variations of a product + more troubleshooting + more development + more software design = more cost. Also taking away from materials used in the body with video would have to be justified financially for them. 

It kind of makes sense for M cameras because they have optical viewfinders that don't give you an exact representation of the video being recorded, for SL cameras with EVF it makes zero logical sense and they would be selling to a tiny market. If they ever did this, expect to pay at minimum $1000 for the privilege of video NOT being on the camera.  

Edited March 23, 2024 by Geoff C. Bassett

[Guest]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Stuart Richardson:

I think you are misinterpreting how this all works.

 

I think I know how this works. I have several decades experience as software developer, test manager and project manager and can tell you where the money often is wasted as sunk costs. If modularise a great product like the SL to the functions it has and offer these options  to the potential clients to choose from, you should be able to generate an even broader customer base. Most photographers I know take photos, some take additional videos. For them, there is already a SL1/2/3 in place. For the more video affine folks they have the -S Derivate. And for the pure (i.e. old-school, but digital) photographers we could se a -P derivative - maybe even an -PM (mono) on top. These 3 or 4 lines would use a high number of identical parts, but could be easily configured as partly build-to-order. Think of the automobile or computer industry here. 

Edited March 23, 2024 by Rob Cale

[LocalHero1953]

But what is 'purism'? Why is it useful? Why does the SL series have to show it?

[Stuart Richardson]

To be clear, I am not dead set against this as an additional model. I just don't think it is particularly practical, or makes a lot of sense for a camera that's entire experience of use is already video (that is you are watching a video every time you bring it to your eye or look at the rear screen). I think the purist experience is better done in optical viewfinder cameras, the best version of which would be the M10D. I am such a purist for some of my photography that I use a wooden camera and develop and print everything myself with nothing electric involved at all past the enlarger light, lol. But I would definitely be against removing video from the main SL cameras because I think it is counter towards the main usage case of the system, which was from day one a high end professional hybrid camera.

[Olaf_ZG]

I don’t care much about video, but I don’t use it. A monochrom version would be very welcome though. Doesn’t have to be based on the SL3. The 2(s) in M version would do for me.

[Stuart Richardson]

I will say, however, that I agree with you (Rob) about customization. I think that giving users as much flexibility as possible to configure the camera how they want it would be great. If you don't want video, great, just turn off all the video related items in the menu. Personally, I would love to be able to turn off all but the essential shooting information from the viewfinder (shutter speed, aperture, iso), and not have things like the image count (with dual card slots and 64gb+ SD cards I do not need a frames remaining counter...at least not in the VF), wifi, JPEG settings, WB etc. I am sure it is a bit tricky to implement this, but allowing users to have total flexibility in configuration would be nice. Perhaps they could do it via Leica photos. They tried something like this with the Leica T, and it actually worked pretty well, but it was held back by being a touch screen. Honestly, the S and first SL were better for this too with their 4 buttons that were customizable. But I think they could expand on the idea.

Edited March 23, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[Hanno]

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10 hours ago, Rob Cale said:

in the terms of the original Leica purism for the real photographer.

 

What do you mean by a “real photographer” … ?

someone with expensive gear ? 😂

Edited March 23, 2024 by Hanno

[jaapv]

<rant warning> It is quite beyond me why Video or lack thereof should be associated with Leica purism. The original Barnack design was intended as an exposure meter for movies, the 35 mm film format is a double movie film size, early Leica luminaries like Dr.Paul Wolff travelled with their Barnack and 16 mm movie camera -there are even rumors that he palmed off movie stills as Barnack shots. They would have been mightily pleased by a hybrid camera like we have now. And what about the Leicina? 
To call for “purity” is misplaced elitism in my book, fueled by historical ignorance.
 All my digital cameras have plenty of features that I don’t need. Should I pressure the makers to remove them to please me at the expense of others?  Be sensible and just don’t push that button. <end of rant>

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, Rob Cale said:

I think I know how this works. I have several decades experience as software developer, test manager and project manager and can tell you where the money often is wasted as sunk costs. If modularise a great product like the SL to the functions it has and offer these options  to the potential clients to choose from, you should be able to generate an even broader customer base. Most photographers I know take photos, some take additional videos. For them, there is already a SL1/2/3 in place. For the more video affine folks they have the -S Derivate. And for the pure (i.e. old-school, but digital) photographers we could se a -P derivative - maybe even an -PM (mono) on top. These 3 or 4 lines would use a high number of identical parts, but could be easily configured as partly build-to-order. Think of the automobile or computer industry here. 

Umm, the S derivative is as much for photographers who don’t want to deal with the complications of high resolution cameras as for its hybrid capabilities.

As for purism, that is a philosophical state of mind which has absolutely nothing to do with material tools. In fact, the more selective you are in the choice from the many possibilities of your tools, the more purist you are. 

[Guest]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jaapv:

As for purism, that is a philosophical state of mind which has absolutely nothing to do with material tools.

Purism to me is not a philosophical state of mind. As I used it in my suggestion, it has to do with pure photography and no videography. The whole world is running after movie and excitement, I’m looking for just pure photography without all that unnecessary distraction around using a digital L-Mount camera. Nothing else. Monochrome sensor an additional plus. Strange how so many readers here don’t want see the point.

[Guest]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Hanno:

What do you mean by a “real photographer” … ?

someone with expensive gear ? 😂

It‘s interesting how much energy members of this forum spend to make fun of others, instead of trying to understand the point of the discussion.

[jaapv]

Pure photography ? Doesn’t exist It is just an image making technique, nothing more. I sometimes take moving photos. 

[Guest]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

Pure photography ? Doesn’t exist

So you are like a god and define what is existent? Do me a favour and leave this discussion, it’s annoying.

[jaapv]

Nice definition of Purism there. Thanks. No, I think choice is good and that we define what we choose. And leave others similar choices. Which means that photography is multifaceted and this cannot exist in a pure form To impose my norms would be arrogance. 

[Chaemono]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Rob Cale:

Yes, video is hidden if you don’t want to use it. But it takes up a lot of efforts in product design, software and hardware development, testing. If all these efforts would be stripped, we could see have a great photography product. Plus the option to have this one as a monochrome version maybe. And maybe even shorter upgrade cycles.

I find just the idea that video is there distracting. Two SL monochromes, one for photos and one for video, would be nice. 

[Guest]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

Nice definition of Purism there

I didn’t define purism in any way. I used the word to describe my point of discussion. And you and some others looking for wording discussions instead of SL with video and without. It‘s s waste of time to discuss further here. And you claim to be a moderator of this forum? That’s a bad joke. Cheers.

[jaapv]

Point is: an SL without video is nonsense. It is a hybrid mirrorless camera. 

[jaapv]

30 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I find just the idea that video is there distracting. Two SL monochromes, one for photos and one for video, would be nice. 

Maybe a 20000$ special edition? 

[algrove]

11 hours ago, Rob Cale said:

Just pure photography. No video. Nothing else.

I could go for your suggestion. Heck they already have a M11M with the same SL3 type of sensor without video so to me it could be a natural evolution for an SL3Mono without video.

OK some work would have to be done, but they already know how to remove the Bayer FA for years.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jaapv]

They don't even fit it in the first place