Weird M11 color with Capture One

[Jamie Roberts]

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Just a heads-up about a really weird problem I've found with some "normally" under-exposed M11 DNGs. Has anyone else see this, or is everyone using Lightroom now?  I did search the forum but apart from "magenta cast" issues I didn't find anything. 

In Capture One 23, the color in the image is "removed" and really posterized (brown and green) when you try to correct exposure. This is both in the DNG neutral profile and the Leica M11 profile. I first discovered on my Windows editing PC, and thought I had the proof profile set to something really weird (some limited CYMK or something). But no: sRGB and it's awful! Confirmed on a Mac as well. 

I've never seen this before in C1 with any camera. And yes, FWIW, I know it's never a best practice to underexpose digital files. But in this I was placing highlights (and wanted a faster shutter to hand-hold), and the M11 has more than enough exposure latitude here for this kind of shot. In Camera Raw (and even Microsoft Photos!) the file can be adjusted with ease and colors look (casually) fine. 

I've opened a bug at Capture One with the usual supporting files and DNG. But if someone has an answer for this I'd love to hear it! 

I've attached some representative outputs... Sorry for the banal pic in different sizes, but I just received my M11P after being "Leica-less" for many years and was excited to get started again. Just a loaf of bread I baked yesterday  

First you can see the adjustments in Windows Photos, then a large output from Photoshop (camera raw), so there's no issue with the DNG itself. But then the oh-so-perplexing mess from C1 is really weird  

ETA: in the forum preview, it just looks more green than anything else. WB is 5600k; nothing but an exposure lift in C1 (though tweaking other things make it worse, not better

 

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Edited March 18, 2024 by Jamie Roberts

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[Knorp]

dunno - to me the green one looks healthier …. 🤢

Edited March 18, 2024 by Knorp

[Jamie Roberts]

9 minutes ago, Knorp said:

dunno - to me the green one looks healthier …. 🤢

And to be fair, it *was* taken on St Patrick's Day

[Photoworks]

I have been using Capture One for ages and can't say I have ever seen it before unless you make in duotone black and white.
Ready for St. Patrick's day with green everything.

Would you mind sending the DNG file, I can take a look here. 

[Jamie Roberts]

6 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I have been using Capture One for ages and can't say I have ever seen it before unless you make in duotone black and white.
Ready for St. Patrick's day with green everything.

Would you mind sending the DNG file, I can take a look here. 

I've been using it for ages too--that's why this was such a huge surprise! 

Here's a Dropbox link to original DNG.. Please let me know what you see! Thanks so much!

ETA: even the Dropbox online preview of the DNG file looks better than the C1 rendering (and it's not some kind of JPEG preview, either!). 
I'm quite surprised! 

Edited March 18, 2024 by Jamie Roberts

[Photoworks]

Works fine

maybe you need to update the software?

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[Jamie Roberts]

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Now I'm really stymied. So very weird. I tried it on two separate C1 installs: Windows and Mac; both were updated in the last week--same crappy results. 

But now I'm going to do a clean install and see what happens! Thanks so much! 

BTW--what profile did you use? DNG neutral or M11? 

[Jamie Roberts]

Ok so many, many thanks to @ Photoworks!! I have it working properly on Windows; next I'll go troubleshoot the Mac. 

Something in the most recent C1 updater didn't update correctly (even with reboots, etc). I haven't had an issue updating C1 in years! 

Here's what was wrong and what I did: 

• Capture One had updated over a previous installation incorrectly. When I went looking, I found two recent installs of C1 (including the most up-to-date) but only the original one was active in the system
• I removed both versions of C1, then rebooted, and did a clean install of the most up-to-date
• The faulty install didn't have all the Leica profiles installed, and the DNG "workspace" didn't identify the M11 correctly. When I installed the new one, everything worked as expected (and my session info from previous work was, thankfully, still there!) 
   

No more "green" bread! Thanks so much again! 
 

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Edited March 18, 2024 by Jamie Roberts

[Photoworks]

I saw a little noise in the back. if that is something you like to clean up you can try DxO Pure Raw, you can open it with "open with Dxo" and your clean duplicated appears right back in C1P

[Jamie Roberts]

15 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I saw a little noise in the back. if that is something you like to clean up you can try DxO Pure Raw, you can open it with "open with Dxo" and your clean duplicated appears right back in C1P

Thanks so much for the tip--I'll check out DxO. While I've continued to use C1 / Photoshop over the last few years, I've fallen behind best practices for noise reduction with DNG files! 

BTW--for anyone who might care--turns out there was the exact same issue on my Mac, which means somehow the latest C1 update only partially installed.

Just as on Windows, once I removed the app and reinstalled, everything was fine with the M11 underexposed files (and all the rest looked much better, too, which, frankly, was a huge relief :)) 
 

Edited March 19, 2024 by Jamie Roberts

[Maarten]

Happy to see the problem is resolved. Your bread looks wonderful & delicious!

[ianforber]

On 3/18/2024 at 11:39 PM, Photoworks said:

I saw a little noise in the back. if that is something you like to clean up you can try DxO Pure Raw, you can open it with "open with Dxo" and your clean duplicated appears right back in C1P

Is that for Windows or Mac? I’ve never been able to do that in Mac. When I open a file from C1 in DxO PR3 and process, it refuses to export it back to C1 and tells me I can’t because I already have C1 open. I can only do it by processing a file from outside C1, in which case it does export it to C1. My workaround is to drag a copy of the file onto the desktop and process that. It’s such a faff that I tend to use Topaz instead even though DxO is by far the superior product. 

[davidmknoble]

On 3/22/2024 at 7:14 AM, ianforber said:

Is that for Windows or Mac? I’ve never been able to do that in Mac. When I open a file from C1 in DxO PR3 and process, it refuses to export it back to C1 and tells me I can’t because I already have C1 open. I can only do it by processing a file from outside C1, in which case it does export it to C1. My workaround is to drag a copy of the file onto the desktop and process that. It’s such a faff that I tend to use Topaz instead even though DxO is by far the superior product. 

@ianforber, I do not use DXo PR3, but here is a great article on the difference between using it with a catalog and a session, as well as using “open with” rather than “edit with.”  It also seems pretty clear that you won’t necessarily get much difference if C1 already has a lens profile.

https://www.lifeafterphotoshop.com/can-you-use-dxo-pureraw-with-capture-one-yes-and-heres-how/

 

[Jamie Roberts]

9 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

@ianforber, I do not use DXo PR3, but here is a great article on the difference between using it with a catalog and a session, as well as using “open with” rather than “edit with.”  It also seems pretty clear that you won’t necessarily get much difference if C1 already has a lens profile.

https://www.lifeafterphotoshop.com/can-you-use-dxo-pureraw-with-capture-one-yes-and-heres-how/

 

I do notice a great deal of difference in color noise reduction on M11 files at ISO 6400+ using DxO, so I just pre-processed a batch for import into C1 and further processing (there's no lens corrections I could see for a Leica 35 Summicron ASPH in DxO, so there wasn't any correction there :)) 

Also, FWIW, the "Open with..." trick doesn't seem to work with DxO Pure Raw 4 from within Capture One (using a session). 

Edited March 25, 2024 by Jamie Roberts

[Photoworks]

19 hours ago, Jamie Roberts said:

I do notice a great deal of difference in color noise reduction on M11 files at ISO 6400+ using DxO, so I just pre-processed a batch for import into C1 and further processing (there's no lens corrections I could see for a Leica 35 Summicron ASPH in DxO, so there wasn't any correction there :)) 

Also, FWIW, the "Open with..." trick doesn't seem to work with DxO Pure Raw 4 from within Capture One (using a session). 

It works just fine for me in DxO 4. after clicking all the trail boxes of Dxo.

Did you set the destination to original?

[Jamie Roberts]

22 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

It works just fine for me in DxO 4. after clicking all the trail boxes of Dxo.

Did you set the destination to original?

Yes, I think so... I set DXO to output to the original folder (but in a \DXO sub-folder). But I'll take another look. Right now, when in C1,  and I right-click on a thumbnail and "Open with... DXO" nothing happens.