Retro-fit an MP/M-A with an original M2/M3 load spool?

[LuxLight]

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I know it's possible to upgrade an original M2/M3 spool to a rapid load. But is it possible to convert the rapid load spool on an MP/M-A to an original M2/M3 one?

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[Helge]

Probably a lot of work for no benefit.

[Fotoklaus]

Or to Robot NR- Cassettes. They are even harder to find. 

[blackdot]

Try contacting Youxin Ye. About 11 years ago, he sold me an MDa with an M2 spool. He had been buying up those cameras cheap as spool donors for M2/3 to M4 spool conversions, then retrofitting the old spools into the MDas. So it likely can be done.

What a cool looking wide angle camera that was. With my silver 21SA, it looked like some retro-future sci-fi robot. 

[250swb]

I’m sure somebody could do it, but why? While you accept it if you are using an M3 or M2 loading is so slow why go back to it if you don’t have to? 

[LuxLight]

17 hours ago, 250swb said:

I’m sure somebody could do it, but why? While you accept it if you are using an M3 or M2 loading is so slow why go back to it if you don’t have to? 

I quite like the older spool since it's more secure. I've had accidents on a rapid load spool before when the film didn't latch on before taking shots, but none so far on the old spool. It's more user error, I know, but I like the peace of mind knowing the film is 100% secured. 

EDIT: However, if 'downgrading' the spool permanently alters/marks the camera in some way, potentially lowering the resale value, I'd probably refrain from doing it.  

Edited February 20, 2024 by LuxLight

[rpsawin]

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FWIW...Plan on owning the camera forever as the proposed retro-fit will most likely kill any future resale value.

[Anbaric]

2 hours ago, LuxLight said:

I quite like the older spool since it's more secure. I've had accidents on a rapid load spool before when the film didn't latch on before taking shots, but none so far on the old spool. It's more user error, I know, but I like the peace of mind knowing the film is 100% secured. 

EDIT: However, if 'downgrading' the spool permanently alters/marks the camera in some way, potentially lowering the resale value, I'd probably refrain from doing it.  

I think it's only a matter of getting used to (and trusting) the M4 system. You just need to insert the film with the leader pulled out so that the tip is between (but not beyond) the 'petals' of the 'tulip', close the camera and go. Once the film is tight, you should check for rotation of the rewind crank when you wind on. I suspect people tend to overthink the process and jiggle the film around while fiddling with the sprocket engagement when they should be paying more attention to where the tip has ended up.

[Greenhilltony]

3 hours ago, LuxLight said:

I quite like the older spool since it's more secure. I've had accidents on a rapid load spool before when the film didn't latch on before taking shots, but none so far on the old spool. It's more user error, I know, but I like the peace of mind knowing the film is 100% secured. 

EDIT: However, if 'downgrading' the spool permanently alters/marks the camera in some way, potentially lowering the resale value, I'd probably refrain from doing it.  

People like to misuse the Rapid load spool system and then complain about it getting misloading. It’s as ridiculous as not taping the red dot would let your M stolen.

It’s just as easy and reliable as the bottom sticker illustrated, like:

57 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

You just need to insert the film with the leader pulled out so that the tip is between (but not beyond) the 'petals' of the 'tulip', close the camera and go.

I haven’t ever need to flip open the back to push the film inside and check the sprocket holes thing.

[Tom R]

1 hour ago, Anbaric said:

I think it's only a matter of getting used to (and trusting) the M4 system. You just need to insert the film with the leader pulled out so that the tip is between (but not beyond) the 'petals' of the 'tulip', close the camera and go. Once the film is tight, you should check for rotation of the rewind crank when you wind on. I suspect people tend to overthink the process and jiggle the film around while fiddling with the sprocket engagement when they should be paying more attention to where the tip has ended up.

All true. One (possible) amplification here: I cannot recall where I heard this, but the warning about extending the film leader past the tulip petals is relevant only when loading film in subzero conditions (that’s 0 degrees C?). Seems that when the film base is that cold, extending the leader past the tulip petals might result in small pieces of the film breaking off. That said, having used both systems, I much prefer the “newer” “rapid loading” mechanism. For one thing, it’s much easier for me to load the camera and walk at the same time … .

[Anbaric]

3 hours ago, Tom R said:

All true. One (possible) amplification here: I cannot recall where I heard this, but the warning about extending the film leader past the tulip petals is relevant only when loading film in subzero conditions (that’s 0 degrees C?). Seems that when the film base is that cold, extending the leader past the tulip petals might result in small pieces of the film breaking off. That said, having used both systems, I much prefer the “newer” “rapid loading” mechanism. For one thing, it’s much easier for me to load the camera and walk at the same time … .

That warning is in the original M6 manual  ('in extremely cold, dry weather the end might break off, and it is best to follow the drawing exactly').

[Anbaric]

You should be able to do it blindfold, though this guy is having rather too much fun proving it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3pLdFfeVWc&t=587s

[250swb]

12 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

You should be able to do it blindfold, though this guy is having rather too much fun proving it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3pLdFfeVWc&t=587s

It is all possible.

Loading film in a quick load is like looking at what's happening around you while doing it, it's easy and with very little to go wrong just so long you check the rewind crank is turning. The same can be said for loading film onto a reel in a changing bag or in the darkroom, closing your eyes helps with the simple manual dexterity required to do it. And having a feeling of where the focus tab points is exactly what professional photographers would do to pre focus while looking at the subject and waiting for the photograph.

[Helge]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb LuxLight:

I quite like the older spool since it's more secure. I've had accidents on a rapid load spool before when the film didn't latch on before taking shots, but none so far on the old spool. It's more user error, I know, but I like the peace of mind knowing the film is 100% secured. 

EDIT: However, if 'downgrading' the spool permanently alters/marks the camera in some way, potentially lowering the resale value, I'd probably refrain from doing it.  

In your place, I would just spend some time for getting used to the rapid load, instead of spending money for such a retro fit.

Once it is in your brain, the rapid load system is very reliable.

[TomB_tx]

5 hours ago, Helge said:

Once it is in your brain, the rapid load system is very reliable.

True - I've been using my M4 since 1968 without loading problems, Just position the leader as shown, close the back and put on the base.