S5II vs S5 and SL2s

[jdlaing]

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4 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I don't know what the specific reason (I understand it was the filter thickness), but I had an S1 before I bought the SL2, and subsequently an SL2S. The M lenses as a whole handle better on the SL cameras, so if your intention is to use M lenses on an L mount body, your money is better invested in an SL2S or SL2. This ranges from not very important (135mm Tele-Elmar, 75mm Summilux) to completely deal breaking (any lens 28mm or wider, in most cases).

It would be my opinion if that you purchased an S5II to use with M lenses, you are much better off just using Sigma or Panasonic L mount lenses. They will be both cheaper and objectively better. If you want to use M lenses, your money would be better spent on an M camera, but if that is not possible, then an SL2S. I think the SL2S is the best SL camera for M lenses, as most of them fare better on the more forgiving 24mp sensor. 47mp is tough on a lot of M lenses, other than the latest crop of APO versions, unless they are well stopped down (but even then).

It’s the offset microlenses.

[jaapv]

And elliptical ones on theSL. 

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

t would be my opinion if that you purchased an S5II to use with M lenses, you are much better off just using Sigma or Panasonic L mount lenses

It really depends on which M lenses you intend to use.

[Stuart Richardson]

4 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It really depends on which M lenses you intend to use.

I disagree. Unless you are only talking about lenses 90mm and longer. Even the 50mm 1.4 ASPH and 75mm APO are significantly diminished on Panasonic/Sony cameras as compared to M bodies. The SL cameras are much better, but still worse. Meanwhile Sigma lenses are now exceptional. I mean, of course, if you don’t care about 2/3rds of the frame then they are all pretty much fine. 

[jaapv]

I'll take some shots with the Summilux 24 M tomorrow (hopefully) and share. Then we will see, as I have not tried it yet on the S5ii. I have no idea what the specifications of the microlenses are. Nor of the well depth which is a factor too. The point is that the problem is the incidence angle, not the focal length, and this is a telecentric lens. I already tried the Voigtländer 12 mm and that is a no-no. It does not vignette that badly and there are no obvious signs of pixel crosstalk as in colour shift  but it does smear significantly towards the corners. 

[jaapv]

And this is a nothing-done-to-it Summilux 24 M image on the S5ii Only auto settings, no sharpening, no vignette control, etc.) only resized. f5.6

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[jaapv]

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Found this one on the forum as well. I would guess this photographer cares about quality on 2/3rds of his frame. Taken with an S1.

 

[jaapv]

So it is quite clear - there are M wideangles that perform excellently on Panasonics.

[Malabito]

On 9/10/2024 at 4:51 PM, jdlaing said:

Filter stack has nothing to do with it.

It does, at least, to many sources. I don’t really know much about that topic, but you are the first person I’ve read who says that it has nothing to do with it. Perhaps others are wrong, and you are the only one who is right.

[jaapv]

It used to be, but sensor filter design has evolved over the years. It still is of some influence, but microlens design is far more important. 

[jaapv]

And here we have the Super Elmar 18 on the S5ii. I only hit Auto in ACR and downsized.

 

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[Stuart Richardson]

On 9/11/2024 at 5:34 PM, jaapv said:

So it is quite clear - there are M wideangles that perform excellently on Panasonics.

I don't want to be overly contrarian Jaap, but I can see the softness in that picture you quoted (the black and white one) even in the smaller version posted on the web. Almost the entire picture is slightly blurred. I should indicate, when I say "soft" I am not saying that it is completely unusable, I am saying that the detail is noticeably blurred or diminished as compared to what that lens is capable of on a body that is designed for it. Or as compared to native lenses. I have not tried every M lens, particularly the latest ones, so I cannot say that every single one is impacted significantly. What I can say is that every lens that I have tried on the Sony and Panasonic is diminished to some degree, most notably wide open, other than the 135mm tele-elmar and maybe the 90mm APO. I noticed it very clearly with the 75mm APO for example, it suffered more than the 75mm Summilux. The 50mm 1.4 ASPH was also diminished more than the 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE, so it is not necessarily a linear relationship to focal length. My main point, and I still stand behind it, is that buying a Panasonic camera to use with M lenses is like buying a sports car to do farm work. Sure, in most cases you can get away with it, but if you plan to be on the farm the whole time you are probably a lot better off just getting a pickup.  And I should also make clear, this is not about brand. I think the Panasonics are great cameras, they just do not have a sensor array that is designed to work properly with M lenses.

Edited September 18, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[Stuart Richardson]

P.S. If I zoom in on your photo, I can see the blurring on the right side of the frame. It is not substantial, but it is there. That blurring is not from depth of field, it is from the light being scattered as it travels through extra glass. If you do not print at larger sizes, it is not going to be significant, but it is there.

[jaapv]

The Summilux 24 M is known for weaker corner performance on the M as well Hard to say whether you ar seeing the  native performance of the lens or a sensor effect. Nevertheless it is a from-my-cold-dead-hands lens, on an M as well as anSL or Pana S5ii. On the CL it mimics the Summilx 35 FLE. Has been for nearly twenty years.