Jack2023

[pippy]

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11 hours ago, jack LJH said:

...What should I do? Ask Leica to replace again? Or refund?...

Ask the dealership for an exchange. Once the camera is shipped to/accepted by a dealership Leica is no longer in control of how the camera will be treated; it is up to the dealership to provide you with a mint/perfect example.

P.

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[jack LJH]

11 hours ago, Miltz said:

Did the original one that you ordered come factory sealed? Or did you just get the Leica Box? 

No. Neither had  a factory seal. But both they had a simple package which was sealed by a stick tape but was resealed by another tape. Dealer said that Leica told them that the when package arrived from Germany, local Leica wholesale had to open it to put local power cable in it.

[thegobi]

15 hours ago, jack LJH said:

I bought a Q2M from DigiDirect in Melbourne in Nov last year. As soon as I open the box, I found finger prints all over on camera body and lens. I contacted the seller. The contacted Leica wholesale. Leica immediately replace the this camera (made in Oct. 2023) with an older version (made in April 2021). I did not open the box till Dec. and tried to test shooting. I found two very tiny marks on lens hood like marks made by a sharp object. I contacted Leica directly, expressed my concern that this camera was refurbished. Leica qaranted that the camera is brand new but they missed the check of hood. They will replace the hood for me. But I am not convinced how could a brand new camera came with a faulty hood? I have bought several Nikon, Sony, Fujifilm cameras in the past 30 years and a Leica M6. None of them had such quality problem.

What should I do? Ask Leica to replace again? Or refund?

Jack

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Well I am fully qualified to have my 2cents of opinion on this one! 😜
As a Q2M owner who purchased from the same business ( just not in Melbourne ) I would probably just keep the one you have.

The first one could well have been shelf stock. In Australia, shelf stock is usually sold at a discounted price - if you paid full price for it, that would have been unacceptable so I understand that.

Your current one just looks like someone dinged the lens hood during assembly (hand assembled… like the non-straight Leica logo in another thread) - I wouldn’t use a sharpie on a Q2M finish: go to a hobby store and find a Matt black paint pen to cover those dots.

Technically you could complain under Australian consumer law as products need to be ‘fit and merchantable’ and you could argue that those dings do not meet a merchantable standard… (you won’t be making any friends doing so 😆)

…but are you buying the camera to use, or as form of investment where it lives in the box until it’s just resold? (If it’s the latter, I hope you also got the outer beige Leica box for resale value)

I have found the Q2M paint to be fairly durable but eventually the edges and corners will rub - especially the lens hood. Just normal wear and tear.

The problem with the perception of Leicas is they are expensive (duh!) - but you have to decide if it is a luxury item, a piece of jewellery, or a precision instrument that will get use in the field.

I personally would be testing the hell out of it to see if it has any other issues and if not consider it a ‘good one’ —two tiny dings on the  hood are a lot better than strap lugs falling off, lines on the sensor, etc.  🙂

 

update:  Dealer said that Leica told them that the when package arrived from Germany, local Leica wholesale had to open it to put local power cable in it.
This is true.

Edited January 13, 2024 by thegobi

[Miltz]

35 minutes ago, jack LJH said:

No. Neither had  a factory seal. But both they had a simple package which was sealed by a stick tape but was resealed by another tape. Dealer said that Leica told them that the when package arrived from Germany, local Leica wholesale had to open it to put local power cable in it.

Jack, I’m fairly certain that the item that you purchased wasn’t brand new from the factory. No reputable Leica dealer will unseal a box to put a power cable in it. They would just include it with your order on the side. This story smells of BS. 

[thegobi]

1 minute ago, Miltz said:

Jack, I’m fairly certain that the item that you purchased wasn’t brand new from the factory. No reputable Leica dealer will unseal a box to put a power cable in it. They would just include it with your order on the side. This story smells of BS. 

It is Australian law that a product must be sold with the correct power cable included- this is common practice down under.

[Miltz]

19 minutes ago, thegobi said:

It is Australian law that a product must be sold with the correct power cable included- this is common practice down under.

Interesting. Thank you for sharing this detail. But does the state that it has to be in the box or can it be given to the customer at the time of purchase? 

[thegobi]

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5 minutes ago, Miltz said:

Interesting. Thank you for sharing this detail. But does the state that it has to be in the box or can it be given to the customer at the time of purchase? 

Not sure what the exact law says, but I have purchased products with stickers on them specifically saying it has been opened to add a cord. I expect it happens from the first sale point—the wholesaler to the retailer—so it’s just easier to add the cable rather than have one tag along as a seperate package.

[jaapv]

I thought that Leica would include the correct power cord in the factory when exporting to Australia. After all, they pack the camera upside down in the box as well. Seriously: I don’t have a Q but other Leicas that I bought had either interchangeable plug adapters on the charger or a number of different cords packed. Does the Q really ship with only one plug type?  One.should be able to travel with a camera. Disclaimer: I’ve never seen a South African or Italian plug included. Normally just universal European, UK, USA and Australian. 

[M11 for me]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb bobtodrick:

Wouldn't want you as a customer...and I've been a Leica dealer for 30 years.

What did the customer do wrong? I believe he did nothing wrong at all. You have a most interesting attitude. I doubt if I ever would put my foot into your shop.

[jack LJH]

9 hours ago, Indeepthought said:

🍷

Thanks for your comments, Indeepthought. Fortunately in my case, I did not deal with an arrogant dealer. Both my camera dealer and Leica wholesale in Melbourne are very friendly and helpful. Communications went smoothly and peacefully.

[jaapv]

Well, I must admit that if one does not want one’s customers to be finicky to the level of refusing opened boxes it is not a good idea to sell to private Leica buyers. Most demand a pristine factory-sealed product.

There are instances of people keeping their Leica factory-sealed camera in a safe for half a century and then bringing it to auction including an X-ray of the contents. 

[thegobi]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

I thought that Leica would include the correct power cord in the factory when exporting to Australia. After all, they pack the camera upside down in the box as well. Seriously: I don’t have a Q but other Leicas that I bought had either interchangeable plug adapters on the charger or a number of different cords packed. Does the Q really ship with only one plug type?  One.should be able to travel with a camera. Disclaimer: I’ve never seen a South African or Italian plug included. Normally just universal European, UK, USA and Australian. 

Just did a double check — the Q2M came with an American/Japanese Chinese (I think) and a European plug. They were in a soft Leica cloth bag. The added Australian plug was in a plastic bag. Many years ago my wife’s little PanaLeica D-Lux 6 came with all the plugs but it seems not the case now. 

Both the Q2Ms in this discussion came from Digidirect - a reputable, authorised Leica boutique business so it is very unlikely they were ‘grey’ imports.

Maybe it’s just not viable to add it because it isn’t widely used… 😐

From the Wikipedia:

The standard is used in Australia, Argentina, New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga, Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea and several other Pacific island countries. The International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) "world plugs" Web site calls this plug Type I.

[jaapv]

Probably represents shifting markets. 

[thegobi]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Well, I must admit that if one does not want one’s customers to be finicky to the level of refusing opened boxes it is not a good idea to sell to private Leica buyers. Most demand a pristine factory-sealed product.

There are instances of people keeping their Leica factory-sealed camera in a safe for half a century and then bringing it to auction including an X-ray of the contents. 

I buy my cameras to use, and I buy my wine to drink 😝

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

There are instances of people keeping their Leica factory-sealed camera in a safe for half a century and then bringing it to auction including an X-ray of the contents. 

True story:

https://www.acquiremag.com/tech/leica-unopened-ke-7a

It ended up on eBay offered by Schouten 

[thegobi]

7 minutes ago, jaapv said:

True story:

https://www.acquiremag.com/tech/leica-unopened-ke-7a

It ended up on eBay offered by Schouten 

But does it come with an Australian power cord? 🤣

[thegobi]

Also: my wife can confirm shopping at Leica in Harrods is a very different experience to shopping at DigiDirect in Australia 😉

[jack LJH]

Hi,

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. Let me clarify a number of thing.

1. DigiDirect, like some of you mentioned, is a reputable, Leica authorized dealer. I have been buying cameras from their friendly and helpful staff for year. I never question their integrity. In this case I don't think they have done anything wrong. On the contrary, they have helped me to deal with Leica in a very professional and timely manner.

2. Leica wholesale in Melbourne is also very nice to deal, never arrogant only because they are selling expensive cameras. So I have no doubt about business ethics of both DigiDirect and Leica wholesale in Melbourne. 

3. I have bought different brands of cameras in my past 30 year or so (mainly from DigiDirect and Ted's) including Nikon, Sony and Fuji in Melbourne. All of them came with a factory sealer. Most importantly, you can easily check camera shutter count online. 

4. But both Q2Ms came without factory seal. When I complained about the finger prints on the first Q2M, Leica Australia quickly replaced it without delay. For the second Q2M, Leica explained that this 2021 made Q2M (the first one made in 2023) has never been moved in Leica's system (I understand it means it is a brand new one). But unfortunately Leica "missed" the marks on the second Q2M's hood. I should have no question about Leica's claim should I be able to check the shutter count.  I have bought Leica iiif, M3 and M6. I never questioned Leica's high level quality of its cameras but this time. I don't want to see that as Leica becomes more and more expensive, its quality control is declined. This is the question I want an answer.

Once again, I thank everybody's contribution which helped me to know more about Leica.

 

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[jack LJH]

BTW, Leica agreed to replace the hood for me. But my concern is not about the hood which will not affect the shooting. My concern is: if it is a brand new camera how could it pass Leica's strict quality check with a hood with dings? Even Thailand or Chinese made camera or lens have such problem.

Edited January 14, 2024 by jack LJH

[thegobi]

1 hour ago, jack LJH said:

BTW, Leica agreed to replace the hood for me. But my concern is not about the hood which will not affect the shooting. My concern is: if it is a brand new camera how could it pass Leica's strict quality check with a hood with dings? Even Thailand or Chinese made camera or lens have such problem.

Because, sometimes, people make mistakes…

The measure of a company is not whether it makes mistakes, but how it deals with them