Upgrade from M10 to M11

[phongph]

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17 hours ago, jaapv said:

 

 

 

Dear Jaapv!
Many thanks for your advice!
Phong!

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[Guest]

On 1/6/2024 at 1:01 AM, kevin2212 said:

Dear community,

I am shooting an M10 for almost 4 years now. I bought it used and it never let me down. Last week I visited my local dealer (where I bought my M10) and he offered me 4000€ for my M10 if I’d upgrade to a used M11. In summary, I’d have to pay 3000€ for this upgrade. I am tempted to be honest. 

I held the M11 in my hands and liked, that’s it’s lighter than my M10 and also think that USB-C is pretty handy. 
However, I never really missed anything on my M10. Besides high ISO on some occasions and battery life. I was wondering if the upgrade is worth it, given the fact, that the M10 will decrease in value and this deal is really good IMO.

What are your experiences upgrading from an M10 to an M11? Does the M11 still freeze after the firmware fixes? I will shoot a wedding in summer and can’t afford unreliable gear. 
 

Thank you in forward,

Kevin

Did the ‘upgrade’ from M10P. Overall pros and cons are balanced - you will be fine either way.

(neutral)

USB on M11 is useless - other than charging when you forget to take your charger on a trip. Data transfer excessively slow

Triple resolution is a sham

GPS now requires phone connection instead of EVF - both are not great

Black M11 weighs less - better with small lenses, less balanced with heavier ones 

(slightly better)

IQ is slightly better than M10R

Battery life is better

M11 add-on grip is better (allowing for easy battery and SD card exchange)

Exposure measurement is now the same between EVF and rangefinder mode

EVF resolution - half way to SL2 quality

Better dynamic range at ISO 64

(slightly worse)

Shutter sound and delay

Stability - hang ups and image corruption with M11

Less happy with color ‘quality’ out of Lightroom - see other discussions on this form ‘magenta gate’

Purple fringing much worse on fast lenses, including Noctilux 75

Edited January 8, 2024 by mzbe

[jgeenen]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb phongph:

Dear Jgeenen!
I have used Leica M11. Please advise me how to correct the magenta cast in color rendering by "a default import profile"!

Ps: I have used Lr to export the photo file.

Many thanks in advanced!
Phong!

JAAPV posted some tutorials that explain how to use profiles in Lightroom Classic. 

To correct a magenta cast, one can use several different methods in Lightroom:

1. You can use the magenta/green tint slider in the color temperature panel. I did not like this method because I wasn't able to find a definitive value that works with most images.

2. You can use the sliders in the calibration panel. I haven't tried this method yet.

3. You can adjust the red and blue curves in the curves panel. I found this method giving the most pleasing results and the settings to be largely independent of the original lighting conditions. I described it in some detail here:

I created a separate profile containing just this curve adjustment and saved them to a separate profile. I apply this profile on every M11 photo import. I just recently came back from a trip to the sea. We had lighting conditions from sunny (low hanging winter sun with dark blue shadows), overcast/clouded/rainy and artificial light. The import profile improved the colors on every image (except one or two, where I found the skin tones less optimal)

Hope this helps!

 

[jakontil]

On 1/7/2024 at 4:16 AM, MyLeicaWorld said:

Never sell your M10 for M11 .. I did it approximately one and a half year ago.. I sold it for 3000 euros on the trade with m11 .. but I really miss my M10 on every single day .. don’t ask me why cause I have many reasons to tell ..

Why? 
 

im so loved with a 40 mpx even my M11 only set to 36mpx all the time never touch the 60mpx now im facing dilemma with a used M10D, i really want to add… want not need 

Edited January 8, 2024 by jakontil

[Simon644]

On 1/6/2024 at 9:01 AM, kevin2212 said:

Dear community,

I am shooting an M10 for almost 4 years now. I bought it used and it never let me down. Last week I visited my local dealer (where I bought my M10) and he offered me 4000€ for my M10 if I’d upgrade to a used M11. In summary, I’d have to pay 3000€ for this upgrade. I am tempted to be honest. 

I held the M11 in my hands and liked, that’s it’s lighter than my M10 and also think that USB-C is pretty handy. 
However, I never really missed anything on my M10. Besides high ISO on some occasions and battery life. I was wondering if the upgrade is worth it, given the fact, that the M10 will decrease in value and this deal is really good IMO.

What are your experiences upgrading from an M10 to an M11? Does the M11 still freeze after the firmware fixes? I will shoot a wedding in summer and can’t afford unreliable gear. 
 

Thank you in forward,

Kevin

Goodness my local dealer only offered me £2000 in exchange for a new 11p, would I be mad? my m10 is immaculate with box.

 

[thrid]

I was in the same boat about 6 months ago. 

I had an M10 with three batteries that I was quite content with, but ultimately I upgraded to the M11. Prior to the M10 I had a 240.

Why? A big factor was depreciation and the high cost of M bodies.

Basically I buy in on the latest model about a year after it comes out, when used or demo bodies are widely available at an appreciable discount. 

Usually I get about 60-70% of the purchase price of my old camera back and make up the difference on a used example of the new model. 

In general that gives me about 4 years of use out of each camera.

I attribute this strategy to two factors:

- Unlike film cameras, digital cameras have an 'expiration date', meaning that at some point their resale value will crash or you will no longer be able to repair them or purchase replacement batteries. I got my first M in 1996 (M6ttl) and some of my other 5 film bodies are over 60 years old now. They still function perfectly and can be repaired for as long as someone is making film.

- The stratospheric prices for digital M bodies. Currently a standard M11 is going for $8995. By comparison the top of the line Nikon Z9 goes for $5500 and a medium format Hasselblad X2d 100c for $8100. Basically short of a dedicated medium format back the M11 series may be the highest priced digital camera on the planet. It certainly is the most expensive full frame camera on the market by a comfortable margin. The point is that it is a lot easier to pony up about $3000-4000 dollars every four years to upgrade, than lose the entire trade in value on the old camera and have to pay $6000-9000 or more to essentially start over from scratch. This is the same approach that many people take with cars. They trade in every 5 years or so to retain some of their investment, before the trade in value drops to nothing and they have to start entirely from scratch.

Obviously there are some folks who make money with their Leica or for whom money is no object and that is a different calculation, but we are talking about the average Joe and Jane here.

So, that's the unfortunate reality. 

I was quite content with the M10 and prefer its shutter cycle to that of the M11. But overall the M11 is a big upgrade in terms of DR, battery life / USB-C charging and matrix metering. 60MP is total overkill for me. I would be perfectly content with 40MP, but the DR on the new sensor is exceptional.

I considered getting an M10-R, but the difference in price was only about $1000 and at that point the M11 was the better future proof option.

Ultimately I'm aiming for two M bodies in which case upgrading to beat depreciation will be even more pressing. On the other hand if I was smart and went with the classic combo of a 28/35 on a Leica M and 50mm on a Nikon  I could save myself a lot of money and aggravation....

Anyhow, I'm not a huge fan of being forced into the 4 year upgrade cycle, but unfortunately at the moment that's the reality for many us.

Edited April 7, 2024 by thrid

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I replaced M10R with 11P principally because of its lower weight. I quite like the absence of the traditional base plate but it's a shame you need to remove battery in order to access SD card (the Q2 doesn't have this issue and the rather fragile little access gate has not failed/broken after many operations).