Confused about 35mm Summaron f3.5 on M240

[Street imprints]

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I just bought a36 35mm Summaron 3.5 from Keh. Really didn't have much info on the site. I have it now but it only focuses with Live View. I have a LTM-M adaptor and it doesn't focus correctly within the rangefinder. Seems ok with live view but Im curious why it won't allow me to focus with the rangefinder. 

I did research it and now im just confused. It didn't come with goggles, or say it should have them. Is that the issue that it needs goggles? Is there a way to get it to focus with the rangefinder or do I need to send it back? I love it. 

Can someone explain the issue please? Serial number 781477

https://www.keh.com/leica-35mm-3-5cm-f-3-5-summaron-screw-mount-lens-36-slip-on.html?aid=232928-555302&utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Leica&utm_term=232928-555302&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAs6-sBhBmEiwA1Nl8s80czPceJiPt9ex5Th8Pz3ol81Kiu-h7DoxugDZd18NNBN9Mp7QdexoCopoQAvD_BwE

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[pgk]

If it doesn't focus correctly with the rangefinder then there is a problem. It could be camera or adapter or lens. Photos would help.

[Street imprints]

33 minutes ago, pgk said:

If it doesn't focus correctly with the rangefinder then there is a problem. It could be camera or adapter or lens. Photos would help.

Thanks here are photos. The adapter works with other lenses I believe. 

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[earleygallery]

If your lens is as per the link (screw mount, A36 filter) then it was never made in goggled form and should work correctly with the rangefinder.

As M adaptors are pretty basic things it would suggest that there's a problem with the lens - I would return it for another. It may have been dismantled at some point for cleaning and not put together again correctly.

[Street imprints]

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[Street imprints]

1 minute ago, earleygallery said:

If your lens is as per the link (screw mount, A36 filter) then it was never made in goggled form and should work correctly with the rangefinder.

As M adaptors are pretty basic things it would suggest that there's a problem with the lens - I would return it for another. It may have been dismantled at some point for cleaning and not put together again correctly.

Thanks. This is what I was thinking. I can see the split image moving with the rangefinder but it barely moves through the whole focus range. But live view it seems ok. I was able to shoot last night with it but tbh I might have just gotten lucky with getting subjects in the range it’s working at. 

[earleygallery]

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16 minutes ago, Street imprints said:

Thanks. This is what I was thinking. I can see the split image moving with the rangefinder but it barely moves through the whole focus range. But live view it seems ok. I was able to shoot last night with it but tbh I might have just gotten lucky with getting subjects in the range it’s working at. 

Well it's a screw mount lens so never any goggles involved (they were for the M mount versions for the M3).

From what you describe it sounds to me that it has been tampered with at some point and the cam in the lens that engages with the rangefinder cam isn't in the correct position hence the problems you're seeing.

[pgk]

Can you photograph the back of the lens? Basically the rear should have a section which moves in and out as it is focussed. This presses against the roller in the camera - at the top of the where the lens fits. If this does not happen then there will be no rangefinder focus. It does sound as theough the lens may be the problem - perhaps wrong reassembly or something unattached inside the mecahnism. If you hold the lens and move the focusing you should be able to feel the (brass?) section at the back move in and out, and this is what pushes the roller and allows the rangefinder to work.

[Street imprints]

15 minutes ago, pgk said:

Can you photograph the back of the lens? Basically the rear should have a section which moves in and out as it is focussed. This presses against the roller in the camera - at the top of the where the lens fits. If this does not happen then there will be no rangefinder focus. It does sound as theough the lens may be the problem - perhaps wrong reassembly or something unattached inside the mecahnism. If you hold the lens and move the focusing you should be able to feel the (brass?) section at the back move in and out, and this is what pushes the roller and allows the rangefinder to work.

It does move in and out as I focus. Here’s a photo. 

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[pippy]

36 minutes ago, Street imprints said:

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In this snap it looks to me as though the infinity-lock detent is nowhere near as far 'clockwise' as it should be and so the lens isn't seated far enough back in the throat of the body.

Is this as far as the lens can rotate in the adapter? Can the lens - when focusssed - physically go far enough clockwise to engage the lock at infinity?

Philip.

 

[dg4mgr]

From the photo in #9 is seems that the recessed part of the thread mount that should allow the moving barrel in the lens mount to move he roller in the camera is not where it should be - in front of the roller. Could you check? Also the recessed part looks like poorly machined - by hand or so. Why? 

[dg4mgr]

Look at this picture, is your lens similar? To get the recessed part of the thread mount next to the rangefinder roller, the little screw next to the 25 ft mark should be at 1 o'clock position when mounted to the camera. In your pictures (#3/#4) it looks like before 12 o'clock. Is the thread turned far enough?

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[pgk]

1 hour ago, Street imprints said:

It does move in and out as I focus. Here’s a photo. 

In the photo at ~10-11 o'clock the recess has been modified. Those rough marks suggest that it has been filed. My guess is that the lens has been incorrecty fitted together and/or modified at some point. 

[Olaf_ZG]

Just read this thread by accident, but I really like the way people are trying to help. Great 👍 

[earleygallery]

Just to reinforce the above, here's another example. It appears therefore that the lens is probably OK as the pin is in the correct position but isn't mounting correctly on the camera so the cam roller isn't lining up with the gap on the lens.

As suggested make sure the lens is screwed in fully to the adaptor - if that's not it then try another adaptor but I'd be very surprised to find a faulty one!

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[archive_all]

I have this lens and other LTM lenses. As @earleygallery mentioned it is most likely the adapter and likely the adapter cutout isn't aligning with the cutout on the threaded mount. In fact I can tell that's the case from the first images and how the lens is aligned on the camera as the focus stop should be at 2 o'clock not 12 o'clock.

[Street imprints]

Thanks so much for all the help! Im so happy to get help with this. This forum is awesome! I got it from Keh in "ugly" condition lol. It didn't really specify much else tbh. But it does seem the underside is kind of ugly. I'm starting to think it's the adaptor. I've ordered another one so I will update when it arrives. Im not sure exactly what they did or didn't do with the lens tbh. If the new adaptor lets me focus ill take it to get serviced. They wanted to charge me $45 to look at the lens, which is the same price as a new adaptor so seemed smarter to try that first in case I did need it. 

[jdlaing]

What kind of adapter is it?

Can you post pics of it?

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Hallo,

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[pgk]

If another adapter doesn't solve the issue then it may be that the lens has been reassembled incorrectly, with the helicoil fitted wrongly for example. This may still allow the lens to focus but not correctly in terms of the engraved figures on the lens and the actual focus. The roller would be incorrectly positioned too. Simple test is to se the lens at infinity andsee if focus is at infinity. If not then it may be the helicoil (or something else) internally. You could also try taking photos at known distances measured from the film place using a tape measure. This will at least tell you if the lens is sitting correctly on the camera via the adapter.

[dg4mgr]

From the pictures given by @Street imprints there is no evidence the lens might be incorrectly assembled. Check if there is no gap between lens barrel and ft scale ring when focussed to infinity, compare to the picture in #15. Also check if at infinity focus, rangefinder and live view are consistent, as suggested by @pgk. If both ok, the lens is fine.

The misalignment between thread cut-out and rangefinder roller also visible by the misaligned pin-screw (not at 1 o'clock) can not be caused by wrong assembly, as the thread mount, the cut-out and the ft scale ring are one single part.