leica 35mm f2 v4 vs summilux 35/1.4 steel rim original

[hrryxgg]

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one more tough question for the folks here.

leica 35mm f2 v4 vs summilux 35/1.4 steel rim original

which of these lenses do most prefer?

how are the different?

so many thanks!

 

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[a.noctilux]

Focus at 1m and 0.7m for Summicron.

E39 filter, plastic square hood on Summicron.

 

...more in Wiki,

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/35mm_f/1.4_Summilux_I

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/35mm_f/2_Summicron-M_IV

[hrryxgg]

i think what i was curious about was the image difference between the two.

is the orig steel rim a more soft image?

that kind of thing.  thanks!

[rcusick]

I have both….  Main difference - aside from maximum aperture- is build and coating.  The summicron is plastic.  The Summilux is aluminum I believe.  The summicron has a more modern / contrasty coating.  The Summilux has a cooler look and lower contrast rendering.  Finally some think the summicron has better subject fall off.  But Leica seems to disagree and calls the Summilux the true kind of bokeh.  Hope that helps. 

[adan]

4 hours ago, rcusick said:

The summicron is plastic.

Oh, please - about 4 parts out of 35, and even those is avoidable if one gets the post-1986 German-made ones. 

...............

In general - the Summilux non-ASPH should be a bit better and more even resolution stopped down to 4-5.6 than the v.4, while retaining gentler overall contrast and tonality.

But that is based on using a v.2 (small 1969 design tweak, built in 1983). The reissued SR appears to have a bit different "highs and lows" from any of the others, based on the MTF charts.

The v.4 is sharper in the center at f/2.0-2.8, not as good in the outer parts of the picture until f/8-11. And a tiny bit warmer color tone.

v.4 focuses to 0.7m - a necessity for my work (human details, not landscapes). Which always ends up clinching the deal - I keep a Summilux a few months, and then realize "Nuts - my 28mm frames tighter!!" And go back to the v.4.

[rtai]

I have the 35mm Summicron v4 and the Summilux v2. I owned the original SR at one time and the difference between that and the v2 is not significant. I would choose the Summilux either version because stopped down to f/2.8 or f4 - ish you get the sharpness of the Summicron but with a special look at f1.4 and f2. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by rtai

[evikne]

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No one has yet mentioned the most obvious difference - the price! The original Steel Rim is about ten times more expensive. So if someone wanted to give me one of them, I'd obviously choose the Steel Rim - and then sold it! 😉

[rcusick]

10 hours ago, adan said:

Oh, please - about 4 parts out of 35, and even those is avoidable if one gets the post-1986 German-made ones. 

...............

In general - the Summilux non-ASPH should be a bit better and more even resolution stopped down to 4-5.6 than the v.4, while retaining gentler overall contrast and tonality.

But that is based on using a v.2 (small 1969 design tweak, built in 1983). The reissued SR appears to have a bit different "highs and lows" from any of the others, based on the MTF charts.

The v.4 is sharper in the center at f/2.0-2.8, not as good in the outer parts of the picture until f/8-11. And a tiny bit warmer color tone.

v.4 focuses to 0.7m - a necessity for my work (human details, not landscapes). Which always ends up clinching the deal - I keep a Summilux a few months, and then realize "Nuts - my 28mm frames tighter!!" And go back to the v.4.

Why I bought German…. Looks like a lot of plastic to me….

 

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[Stein K S]

5 hours ago, rcusick said:

Why I bought German…. Looks like a lot of plastic to me….

 

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This particular picture of the 35 cron v4 in pieces seems to have been «recycled» over and over. Yes, it is obviously so that earlier non-german version did have some plastic parts. However, the frequent exposure of this particular picture of this single example of plastic parts causing severe problems… and few or no others… makes be truly curious about the true magnitude of this claimed to be, substantial problem…

Edited December 27, 2023 by Stein K S

[patrickcolpron]

There are differences, the original Steel Rim is better, specially on film. It has a unique rendering and great color rendition. 

Wide open they are both not at their best, closed down is where the magic happens. 

Strangely wide open the bokeh and rendering is preferable with the Summicron V4, but where the Steel Rim takes the cake is against the light.

An original Steel Rim handles flare much better than most Leica 35 mil lenses old and modern lenses, an Original Steel Rim is also sharper than the reissue .

Money's no object get an original Steel Rim, a 176, 177, 206 or 216 (avoid the 173)

If budget is an issue, a Summicron V4 is a great option, it is one of the great Leica 35 mil lens, but closed down.  

17 hours ago, adan said:

In general - the Summilux non-ASPH should be a bit better and more even resolution stopped down to 4-5.6 than the v.4, while retaining gentler overall contrast and tonality.

What Adan says here is quite right, plus at f/8 is where an Original Steel Rim truly shines and to touch on something he mentioned about the V4, if you need close focusing - then a V4 is the lens you need. Minimum focusing distance on the Original Steel Rim is 1 meter, except for the goggled versions which focus down to 65 cm. 

[grahamc]

For the v1, a good copy of any batch is more important than the batch it came from, such were the production sample variations of the day lens to lens.  

For instance, my 173 just slightly outperforms my 176, despite the 176 also being an excellent copy (formerly owned and used by a Leica executive for several decades).   But since they were produced in the same year 1960 rather than saying 173 batch is better than 176 (or avoid 176) it is much more accurate to put this down to production variations lens to lens, such was production methods of the day.  Since one copy is goggled (min focus distance 0.65 as Patrick points out) and the other not I use them for different occasions/different viewfinder magnification bodies. Both are great. 

The v4 cron you may find a little bland in comparison but strengths are size/weight (and price in context of this discussion).  The v4 has beautiful pastel colours and overall is a great balance of modern and classic rendering. 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by grahamc

[yura]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:48 PM, rcusick said:

Why I bought German…. Looks like a lot of plastic to me….

 

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This one on photo is an earliest version of Canada made “tiger claw” poorest quality plastic “silumine” version. And as I see there is a “leitz lens made in canada” logo on front))))