Which Printer in 2024 ?

[Pelu2010]

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Hi, 

 

I was wondering which printer you would suggest for 2024 ? 

I am looking for a DIN A3 printer. 

And I would be nice if the printer has refillable tanks. 

Anyone with support knowledge ? 

 

cheers Peter 

 

 

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[elmars]

I would go straight for an A2 printer. The ink costs are usually considerably lower. A2 printers also have a replaceable service tank into which the excess ink (from cleaning processes, among other things) is disposed of. With earlier generations of A3 printers, you had to take the printer to a service centre if this was the case. I don't know what the situation is with the current generation, but you should be aware of this.

Otherwise there is practically only the choice between Canon and Epson. The print results don't differ, only the handling. The Epson is smaller and lighter, the Canon is large and above all heavy (you can't carry it on your own). On the other hand, the Canon's paper handling is better.

[Jeff S]

We don’t know what 2024 will bring.  For now, the usual suspects are 17” versions from Epson (P900 in US) or Canon (Pro 1000).  There are already many discussions on the topic, with pluses and minuses.  I would stay away from 13” counterparts… smaller ink cartridges and machines are not much smaller.  I use OEM inks.

Jeff

 

[tim]

Hi Peter,

I am currently in the market for a good photo printer as well and just recently had chat about that with Elmar. Since then I had looked online at the Canon Pro 300 vs. Epson SC P700 as A3+/ 13" printers and the Canon Pro 1000 vs. Epson SC P900 as A2+/ 17" printers.

As far as I can see both Epson printers have the same replaceable service tank, but couldn't find any information on the service tank for Canon's P300.

Besides the initial purchase price the biggest difference seems to be the ink capacity per color, which is 14.4ml at the Canon P300, 25ml for the Epson P700, 50ml for the P900 and 80ml for the Canon P1000. That translates into  1.000-1.250€/l ink cost for the smaller printers and 650-850€/l for the bigger units.

 I still have not clear what to chose, but consider the Epson SC P700 due to its smaller size and the lowest purchase price of all four options (700€) and the Canon P1000 at 1.000€, which almost seems to be a bargain considering the ink it comes with.

Since the quality of the prints seems to be at the same, very high level it all comes down to the initial purchase price and the operations cost for me.

Cheers,

tim

[Jeff S]

Don’t know about European sales, but in the US the Epsons are routinely discounted through the online Epson Rebate Center, and sometimes additionally through dealers.  It’s all about ink sales…much like razor discounts to capture blade sales.  I bought my last two Epsons (3800 and P 800, each for 7 years) for discounts ranging from $300- $400. 
 

If roll paper is desired (not for me), the 17” machines offer much more flexibility and robust mechanisms.

Jeff

[kona]

Hi Peter,

I don't know if there are any A3 printers with refillable tanks. Also they usually have a small number of inks so not best suited for photography (I assume you are interested in a photo printer since you are posting on the Leica forum)

In terms of brands, the main ones in the world of photo printing are Epson and Canon. Based on the research I had done some years ago, it seemed that Canon is more reliable for home users who don't print photos every day, as the Epsons were much more prone to the ink drying inside the head and blocking it. Professionals who print on a daily basis were happy with both brands. I don't know if this is still the case. Personally I have been using Canons for many years without problems.

The next decision is whether you want a dye or a pigment based printer. To summarise the differences:

- dye ink means the colour is dissolved in the ink, whereas pigment contains very fine particles

- the downside of pigment inks is that these particles will settle down over time. Canon pigment printers have a function to periodically "shake" the cartridges, but you still need to print fairly regularly (I would say once per week) to ensure that the ink that is in the head doesn't settle. Dye printers tend to be more reliable, I have one that sometimes stays off for months and never had any issues.

- the advantages of pigment ink, is that it doesn't fade with UV light (although dye inks these days can also last a very long time), you have more accurate colours, and you can print on more types of paper like matte/rag). High end professional printers are usually pigment based.

 

So with all that being said I would recommend the following:

Canon PIXMA PRO-200: A3+ size (between A3 and A2), dye based, 8 inks. This would be my recommendation if you don't print that much.

Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-300: A3+ size again, pigment based, 10 inks

Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-1000: A2 size. It's a big & expensive beast, but as elmars mentioned, the cost of the ink per ml is a lot lower so if you print a lot you can make the money back over time. And it gives you the option to print bigger if you ever want to. This is also the printer I have and I am very happy with it.

 

 

[Jeff S]

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33 minutes ago, kona said:

In terms of brands, the main ones in the world of photo printing are Epson and Canon. Based on the research I had done some years ago, it seemed that Canon is more reliable for home users who don't print photos every day, as the Epsons were much more prone to the ink drying inside the head and blocking it. Professionals who print on a daily basis were happy with both brands. I don't know if this is still the case. Personally I have been using Canons for many years without problems.

 

Times change;  there are many discussions here that will bring you up to date on recent and current models.

Canon printers, like your Pro 1000, have hot firing heads that build residue over time (even with cleanings), which is why cleaning cycles are automatically generated on a regular basis and cannot be turned off by the user, as well as why Canon has user replaceable heads. Ink WILL be used regularly, both for printing and for mandated cleanings, so one may as well print regularly in order to not waste ink on cleanings.
 

Epsons (like the P900 equivalent) rely on cold firing heads, which don’t build residue, but that do require usage to avoid clogs.  But the recent models are far less clog-prone than their predecessors.  I owned the 3800 (17 inch, 80ml cartridges) for 7 years without any clogging issues, despite irregular use, by simply running a test print once a month or so if idle.  And I’ve now owned the P800 (17 inch, 80ml cartridges) for the last 7 years, also without any clogging issues.  
 

One merely needs to understand how their machines work, and to follow some common sense procedures to ensure good operation. Canon and Epson both currently provide capable machines for reliable home use when treated accordingly. 
 

Jeff
 

 

[Pelu2010]

4 hours ago, kona said:

Hi Peter,

I don't know if there are any A3 printers with refillable tanks. Also they usually have a small number of inks so not best suited for photography (I assume you are interested in a photo printer since you are posting on the Leica forum)

In terms of brands, the main ones in the world of photo printing are Epson and Canon. Based on the research I had done some years ago, it seemed that Canon is more reliable for home users who don't print photos every day, as the Epsons were much more prone to the ink drying inside the head and blocking it. Professionals who print on a daily basis were happy with both brands. I don't know if this is still the case. Personally I have been using Canons for many years without problems.

The next decision is whether you want a dye or a pigment based printer. To summarise the differences:

- dye ink means the colour is dissolved in the ink, whereas pigment contains very fine particles

- the downside of pigment inks is that these particles will settle down over time. Canon pigment printers have a function to periodically "shake" the cartridges, but you still need to print fairly regularly (I would say once per week) to ensure that the ink that is in the head doesn't settle. Dye printers tend to be more reliable, I have one that sometimes stays off for months and never had any issues.

- the advantages of pigment ink, is that it doesn't fade with UV light (although dye inks these days can also last a very long time), you have more accurate colours, and you can print on more types of paper like matte/rag). High end professional printers are usually pigment based.

 

So with all that being said I would recommend the following:

Canon PIXMA PRO-200: A3+ size (between A3 and A2), dye based, 8 inks. This would be my recommendation if you don't print that much.

Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-300: A3+ size again, pigment based, 10 inks

Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-1000: A2 size. It's a big & expensive beast, but as elmars mentioned, the cost of the ink per ml is a lot lower so if you print a lot you can make the money back over time. And it gives you the option to print bigger if you ever want to. This is also the printer I have and I am very happy with it.

 

 

Thanxs ! 

[tim]

Epson seem to have two A3+ printers with refillable tanks in their current lineup

EcoTank ET-18100 & Epson EcoTank ET-8550

Both with 6 inks … the later has one black pigment ink and dye based colours 

[jaapv]

On 12/4/2023 at 6:08 PM, Jeff S said:

Times change;  there are many discussions here that will bring you up to date on recent and current models.

Canon printers, like your Pro 1000, have hot firing heads that build residue over time (even with cleanings), which is why cleaning cycles are automatically generated on a regular basis and cannot be turned off by the user, as well as why Canon has user replaceable heads. Ink WILL be used regularly, both for printing and for mandated cleanings, so one may as well print regularly in order to not waste ink on cleanings.
 

Epsons (like the P900 equivalent) rely on cold firing heads, which don’t build residue, but that do require usage to avoid clogs.  But the recent models are far less clog-prone than their predecessors.  I owned the 3800 (17 inch, 80ml cartridges) for 7 years without any clogging issues, despite irregular use, by simply running a test print once a month or so if idle.  And I’ve now owned the P800 (17 inch, 80ml cartridges) for the last 7 years, also without any clogging issues.  
 

One merely needs to understand how their machines work, and to follow some common sense procedures to ensure good operation. Canon and Epson both currently provide capable machines for reliable home use when treated accordingly. 
 

Jeff
 

 

If printer heads are clogged Epson advises running the cleaning program six times. To my surprise that turned out to be effective. 

[charlesphoto99]

I run an older 24" Canon (ipf6400) and one of the nice things about the 'clog free' Canons is that it's perfectly acceptable and possible to use out of date ink cartridges (I generally go for the 300ml ones if I can find them on eBay). One can save lots of $ this way. Not sure about the P1000, but I would assume this is the case as well. Down to the difference between hot and cold firing heads I assume. 

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

If printer heads are clogged Epson advises running the cleaning program six times. To my surprise that turned out to be effective. 

Never had to do that.  If occasionally one line doesn’t pass nozzle check (usually Photo Black), one or two clean cycles does the trick.  This has been the case for 2 machines over 14 years. (Of course if that hadn’t worked, I’d have kept running cleaning cycles until nozzle pattern full… maybe 6 times?)

Jeff

Edited December 7, 2023 by Jeff S

[jaapv]

For multiple cleaning I use cheap third party ink and Epson on the last run. I should print more...🤔

[Jeff S]

Just run a test print (or nozzle check) now and then if sitting idle for longer periods.

Jeff

[Stuart Richardson]

I would say that if you are interested in keeping prints around for more than a few years, then pigment is absolutely the way to go. Dyes do fade, and they can do so very quickly in strong lighting. I also agree that the 17" wide models (P900 etc) are a far better deal, because of the longer term ink costs, as well as the flexibility to make decently large prints (40x60cm is pretty big on a wall in a home, especially when framed...30x40 not so much). I have only really used Epson in my business, and only the professional models, but I agree that the quality differences are not super large at this point. I have not had to run the Canon printers so cannot comment. I think each model and even each particular model tends to be different. I have really good luck with some models (P9000 and P5000) and bad luck with others (9900 and to a lesser extent, P9500). If I were in your position I would get the model which has easier local service and lower ink costs in your area. Or at the very least, I would encourage you to research both models and see which suits your priorities better.

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

 I also agree that the 17" wide models (P900 etc) are a far better deal, because of the longer term ink costs, as well as the flexibility to make decently large prints 

Agree, except it should be noted that the P900 has 50ml ink cartridges, while its predecessor P800 has 80ml.   The Canon Pro 1000 still has 80ml, albeit with the caveats I described earlier.

The only Epson 17” printer that was a dud, with significant clogging issues, was the 4900.  This was apparently fixed with the Pro 5000 model.
 

Jeff

[Stuart Richardson]

Yes, in the 44” models, the P9000 was a huge improvement over the 9900 in reliability. Quality wise it was very close. 

[hansvons]

20 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Yes, in the 44” models, the P9000 was a huge improvement over the 9900 in reliability. Quality wise it was very close. 

Stuart, I'm also in the market of buying a printer. I'm looking into the 24-inch range. What do you say about the P6000? Thanks!

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[gbpost]

During the last about 20 years I had an Epson 4000, two 4900 and a 5000. All the professionell 17-inch printers. Though I am only an amateur I try to use them on a daily bases and print at least one page in A4, daily. I had issues with all of them with the heads and the capping stations. My 5000, now 6 years old is significantly better in this regard then the previous ones but received a new capping station after two years.

If you are going to buy such a professionell printer, I recommend to buy the longest Epson warranty in addition.

I did this with the last 4900 (3 years) and the 5000 (5 years).  In Germany, where I live this is called Epson CoverPlus. The technicians who came to me in order to repair the printers (print head in the 4900 and some years later the capping station in the 5000) came with a full set of all new ink cardridges, used them during the repair and left them here after the repair. These ink cardridges are well worth the cost of the additional warranty. So I had the additional warranty for free.

I don't know if this is a regular behaviour but I experienced it two times.

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by gbpost
typo

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, gbpost said:

During the last about 20 years I had an Epson 4000, two 4900 and a 5000. All the professionell 17-inch printers. Though I am only an amateur I try to use them on a daily bases and print at least one page in A4, daily. I had issues with all of them with the heads and the capping stations. My 5000, now 6 years old is significantly better in this regard then the previous ones but received a new capping station after two years.

If you are going to buy such a professionell printer, I recommend to buy the longest Epson warranty in addition.

I did this with the last 4900 (3 years) and the 5000 (5 years).  In Germany, where I live this is called Epson CoverPlus. The technicians who came to me in order to repair the printers (print head in the 4900 and some years later the capping station in the 5000) came with a full set of all new ink cardridges, used them during the repair and left them here after the repair. These ink cardridges are well worth the cost of the additional warranty. So I had the additional warranty for free.

I don't know if this is a regular behaviour but I experienced it two times.

 

The 4900 was well know for significant head problems.  I discussed privately with dealers that had numerous bad experiences, and personally knew frustrated users.  It was a rare dud. Good that you at least had extended warranty protection. It took a long time for its Epson replacement, the 5000, to come to market, and I don’t know anyone who took the leap to that printer after the 4900 experience. 
 

Fortunately, I haven’t heard about pervasive problems with other recent Epsons.  As noted, my collective 14 years with the 17 inch 3800 and P800 has been problem free. For me, 80ml cartridges are the sweet spot; 200ml cartridges for the bigger 17 inch or larger machines is overkill for my amateur enthusiast needs.  These seem more at home in either a commercial environment, or by those with substantial ongoing printing needs.

Jeff

Edited December 9, 2023 by Jeff S