LeicaR10 Posted January 13, 2024 Share #21 Posted January 13, 2024 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Herr Banack, One would think a company that has serious issues with a product would rethink where they are going, especially with technology that was never intended for a 75 year old manual camera. Leica was doing pretty good initially with the digital M. It found after several models, more is not better. Hence IMO, the M10 was cleaned things up. No video and several other things disappeared. All very good decisions IMO. Then someone or a group decided maybe during Covid times, the M11 could be a technology leap. Yep...it leaped all right....IMO off the technology cliff. I had to give up on the M11s...tried them all. All found new homes. I know some people have no issues and IMO those may or may not be the majority. We will never know. My choice and preference is now the M10-M and M10-R for M. These have so far been the most reliable M cameras for me. No issues for me. Others may beg to differ and that is fine too. I have written to Leica seniors and told them what I think and offered recommendations. My correspondence was well received. They know the M11 has firmware and hardware issues. They are working hard to resolve them....but it gets back to basic questions. Why did they field a camera that clearly was not ready for prime time. I liken this to software companies what throw their products over the fence and let the users debug/find the flaws for them to fix. In the case of digital camera manufacture, often the firmware can be the show stopper for successful fielding and sales. All we can do is wait and see. One of the things that IMO needs to go is the M11 shutter. It needs a far better solution. Followed by finally resolving the decade + camera freeze issue. I know they are still working on that too. Maybe they will decide to go back to the future and start over with the firmware from scratch. Why do other camera companies not have camera freeze issues? I do not know. Again, Leica is a small company with a lot of smart, hard working employees who love what they do. They just need to work a bit harder to finding solutions to the issues, bite the bullet(s) and if the camera design has too much "stuff" then dump the "stuff" and go back to basics. At the end of the day, it is always: Shutter speed, aperture, and ISO to create a photograph...oh and a creative, visionary mind that knows how to use the tool in hand. Just my two cents. r/ Mark Edited January 13, 2024 by LeicaR10 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13, 2024 Posted January 13, 2024 Hi LeicaR10, Take a look here shots upside down?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Herr Barnack Posted January 13, 2024 Share #22 Posted January 13, 2024 (edited) @LeicaR10 Very well said - it is encouraging that the brass at Leica received your communication and recommendations with open minds. I agree with you that ditching video recording was the right move - and the M11's shutter needs to go. IMHO it doesn't get better than the shutter in my M10M. I would like to see that shutter mechanism make a return in the M12, but it is apparently not compatible with off the sensor metering. Off the sensor metering is not the holy grail and could be set aside. What is the holy grail? 100% reliability - which is sadly missing from the M11 series cameras. As you have observed, the M11's dysfunctional firmware and hardware must be resolved for M11 owners - and it must not be carried over into the M12. If that happens, perhaps there is hope for the M12 after all. Edited January 13, 2024 by Herr Barnack 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaR10 Posted January 14, 2024 Share #23 Posted January 14, 2024 (edited) Herr Barnack, Agree. IMO, the best shutter for an M12 would be similar to the SL2 shutter. In the SL cameras that shutter is reliable and simply works. Whether an M12 could use a shutter of this type that includes IBIS, I do not know. It would need to be engineered to fit in the M12 for sure. Perhaps getting rid of "stuff", maybe a new and smaller mother board, totally rewritten from scratch firmware would be a good start. The other ideas would be to get some of the Panasonic engineers to help work with the Leica engineers to start fresh, and perhaps by working together they would either find what is wrong with the current design or simply build a reliable M12 together from the ground up. Guess we will see what happens with a M12. r/ Mark Edited January 14, 2024 by LeicaR10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceR Posted February 2, 2024 Share #24 Posted February 2, 2024 When I had this happen to me I took a few steps. I use Capture One for my normal workflow, so I verified the files on the SD using other tools. The images were inverted. I put the SD card back into the camera, and the same images were inverted. For my case, it is clear that it happened at the time I captured the image. It has not happened since. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemuthP Posted June 26, 2024 Share #25 Posted June 26, 2024 I have just been on vacation and took a lot of pictures. Just before I travelled I updated my Leica M11 to FW 2.1.1. 5 of the pictures was upside down both in camera and in Lightroom and Apple photos app. I have never experienced this issue before neither with my M240 or M11. After I discovered this I performed a reset of the camera. When I looked at the pictures in the camera none was flipped. I.e. a fw problem not LRC. The I took out the card and imported again to Iphoto and LRC. Now the pictures were again upside down. Inserted the card in the camera and again it shown the with correct orientation. Now I connected to the Leica photos app via wifi to my iPhone. Also here it showed the pictures flipped. Conclusion, this issue has not been fixed in FW 2.1.1 and apparently getting worse, since I have never seen it with previous software 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velo-city Posted November 28, 2024 Share #26 Posted November 28, 2024 Tick. Experienced this now too. I wonder if there's anything left in store for me? The anticipation's almost too much 🤔 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T I N O Posted November 28, 2024 Share #27 Posted November 28, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) Am 26.11.2023 um 08:22 schrieb adan: The digital Ms have an internal "tilt-meter" for (supposedly) detecting vertical vs. horizontal shots - and for use with the "leveling indicator" in the most-recent cameras with electronic viewing capability, and the on-screen level-indication feature included. But as to orientation, that can be fooled or confused by making pictures taken with the lens significantly pointed up or down (up at the sky/tall buildings/stairways/ceilings, down at the sidewalk/floor/flowers/etc.) Copying documents laid flat on a table or a floor is another problem area. What is "up" or "down" when the top and bottom of the camera are nearly level with one another? I guess this is the root of the problem usually.. 💁♂️ Get the same regularly when copying documents laying flat on a table for example with an iPhone 14 Pro. Am 13.1.2024 um 19:10 schrieb marchyman: Don't guess. Use something like exiftool and check the metadata in the original image. The field is named "Orientation". If the field reads Orientation : Horizontal (normal) and Lr shows it upside down it is a Lr issue. Otherwise Lr is doing what the camera told it to do. ..also this! 👍 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted November 29, 2024 Share #28 Posted November 29, 2024 18 hours ago, Velo-city said: Tick. Experienced this now too. I wonder if there's anything left in store for me? The anticipation's almost too much 🤔 You keep posting about issues that were solved in the latest firmware. Are you on 2.1.3? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNK100 Posted November 29, 2024 Share #29 Posted November 29, 2024 51 minutes ago, hdmesa said: You keep posting about issues that were solved in the latest firmware. Are you on 2.1.3? I agree. Some people seem look for issues to post about for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velo-city Posted December 1, 2024 Share #30 Posted December 1, 2024 On 11/29/2024 at 5:07 PM, JNK100 said: I agree. Some people seem look for issues to post about for some reason. Some people just post what they find. It’s a factual observation - did I somehow go out of my way to get Leica to send me an engineering or beta copy of the firmware so I could break the camera and then post about it? How is your post constructive exactly? Seems more like some people just can’t stand anyone voicing issues with a Leica M. Yes I’m on the latest firmware. Some of the other issues reduced but it’s clearly still not perfect, far from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted December 1, 2024 Share #31 Posted December 1, 2024 3 hours ago, Velo-city said: ...Yes I’m on the latest firmware... You're telling me you installed 2.1.3, reset the camera, didn't reimport user profiles – and you still get upside down images? Or are you on the latest firmware but you experienced the issue on a previous version of the firmware? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted December 1, 2024 Share #32 Posted December 1, 2024 This just happened to me yesterday while taking pictures in the backyard on a tripod. I took a series of ~15 photos and 7 in a row were upside down when I imported into LR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNK100 Posted December 2, 2024 Share #33 Posted December 2, 2024 21 hours ago, Velo-city said: Some people just post what they find. It’s a factual observation - did I somehow go out of my way to get Leica to send me an engineering or beta copy of the firmware so I could break the camera and then post about it? How is your post constructive exactly? Seems more like some people just can’t stand anyone voicing issues with a Leica M. Yes I’m on the latest firmware. Some of the other issues reduced but it’s clearly still not perfect, far from it. All I can say is I have had four Leicas and none had/has any issues at all inc. the M11.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter3334 Posted January 19 Share #34 Posted January 19 For me it seems to depend on how I 'hold' the camera when using 'Image Capture' (an iOS application) to import the photos .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 20 Share #35 Posted January 20 There is a reason that every single digital image-processing (or even cataloging/viewing) software I have ever used (in 30 years) has a control like this: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Incorrectly rotated images are a NORMAL occasional "feature" of any digital camera. To be expected from time to time, or the software writers would not have bothered to put the fix top-dead-center on the page. One or two clicks in the software is all it takes to re-orient them correctly. Why all the fuss? 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Incorrectly rotated images are a NORMAL occasional "feature" of any digital camera. To be expected from time to time, or the software writers would not have bothered to put the fix top-dead-center on the page. One or two clicks in the software is all it takes to re-orient them correctly. Why all the fuss? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/385153-shots-upside-down/?do=findComment&comment=5743144'>More sharing options...
JNK100 Posted January 20 Share #36 Posted January 20 5 hours ago, adan said: There is a reason that every single digital image-processing (or even cataloging/viewing) software I have ever used (in 30 years) has a control like this: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Incorrectly rotated images are a NORMAL occasional "feature" of any digital camera. To be expected from time to time, or the software writers would not have bothered to put the fix top-dead-center on the page. One or two clicks in the software is all it takes to re-orient them correctly. Why all the fuss? Absolutely agree - nothing to see here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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