I want this feature.....

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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Eye focusing coupled with manual focus lenses....

Nikon have just done it with the new Zf. Seems like the perfect feature for any Leica with an EVF and adaptor for M lenses to me........

And yes, it doesn't require and electronic coupling. Bobby Tonelli demos it with the 58mm 1.2 Noct.

Gordon

[Jeff S]

Jeff

[dpitt]

I can see how it will help in some cases. I mainly use magnification with MF lenses on the SL. The magnification ptach is in the center of my screen and it stays there. I basically do the same as with the M focusing patch.

1. Magnify
2. Point at subject
3. focus
4. half click to bring up full screen
5. reframe
6. click

Takes less than a second in most cases.

I see that detecting eyes would help me sometimes, and detecting cars would help me when I am shooting a car race.

Now, in most cases, I am just walking around. When something or some moment catches my eye, everything has to happen very fast. I focus on the person, building, motor, car, flower that catches my eye, and shoot. If I first have to set my camera for the right subject, I will loose time. So if I do not know what I will shoot until a second before shooting this will not help much. (I suppose)

Maybe it is just me, but even moving an AF focal point is too much for mee. I use my AF lenses mostly with a small center focus spot.

1. Point at subject
2. Half click to focus
3. Lock
4. reframe
5. click

I can relate to the dream of every photographer to never miss a moment because the camera is always focused and ready to shoot. Closest to this is the new way some camera's basically shoot 60 FPS even before you click. (up to 2 sec before) Then after the shot you choose the best moment. There are even smartphones that let you choose the focus after the fact (artificially). Even if they could ever make an M work this way, I think that I would pass. I think that I would take away a lot of the satisfaction that I get when nailing a shot. Feeling the frustration of missing a shot is part of the process for me.

So, yes, I would try it, and possibly like it. But I will not switch (back) to Nikon for it.
Most of us here ended up buying Leica SL gear (and often Leica M gear too) for the picture quality it delivers and also for the handling and simplicity of the system. I would welcome it, but not if it would interfere with that.

[Simone_DF]

38 minutes ago, dpitt said:

Even if they could ever make an M work this way, I think that I would pass. I think that I would take away a lot of the satisfaction that I get when nailing a shot. Feeling the frustration of missing a shot is part of the process for me.

So, yes, I would try it, and possibly like it. But I will not switch (back) to Nikon for it.
Most of us here ended up buying Leica SL gear (and often Leica M gear too) for the picture quality it delivers and also for the handling and simplicity of the system. I would welcome it, but not if it would interfere with that.

Nobody is forcing you to use a feature you don’t want to use. 

[JohnathanLovm]

4 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Feeling the frustration of missing a shot is part of the process for me.

Also the quickest way to earn yourself as unreliable photographer among your clients. 

[dpitt]

Just now, Simone_DF said:

Nobody is forcing you to use a feature you don’t want to use. 

And still in the Leica M world and to lesser degree SL world, every button and feature matters. Nobody can force you to shoot in color or use a backscreen, but still the monochrom and M versions without backscreen are quite popular.

Not only that, knowing Leica, if they implement it, it will be done in the best way they can, driving up the price of their products at least. If they do, their firmware will at least be much more complicated, which is not always a good thing.

I am not saying that one feature will matter that much. But look what Nikon and Sony camera's even more have become in the quest to be 'all things to all people'.

[dpitt]

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9 minutes ago, JohnathanLovm said:

Also the quickest way to earn yourself as unreliable photographer among your clients. 

Point taken. I am not a pro, so I do not have 'clients' on most occasions. On some rare occasions, I shoot family events, so then I am expected to get some shots...

Actually, I can not imagine a shoot for a client where you do not know what your subject will be. So my case where I explained that I only know what I will shoot a second before i do is probably not very much applicable.

In case of a professional shoot, I suppose you can definitely set your camera to people or cars before the start. In such a case, this feature will not slow you down and in most cases it will probably help to be faster.

Edited October 16, 2023 by dpitt

[Simone_DF]

1 minute ago, dpitt said:

And still in the Leica M world and to lesser degree SL world, every button and feature matters. Nobody can force you to shoot in color or use a backscreen, but still the monochrom and M versions without backscreen are quite popular.

Yeah, so popular that it got discontinued. 

Also not sure why a software feature would result in a higher priced camera. You’re joking, right? Features get added all the time. Leica is paying software engineers the same, then decide what they should do. Working on feature X just means that feature Y is pushed down the line. Price stay the same. 

[dpitt]

1 minute ago, Simone_DF said:

Yeah, so popular that it got discontinued. 

Also not sure why a software feature would result in a higher priced camera. You’re joking, right? Features get added all the time. Leica is paying software engineers the same, then decide what they should do. Working on feature X just means that feature Y is pushed down the line. Price stay the same. 

In my experience there is not such a thing as a free feature. Not in software and not in hardware. Complexity drives up the price and/or reduces reliability. Choices need to be made.

Customers pay in different ways for both kinds. Higher prices, steeper learning curve, less intuitive handling, more bugs, higher repair costs, more breakdowns...

[Simone_DF]

We are not talking about building a nuclear reactor, but to make an existing feature, zooming in when a manual lens focus ring is engaged, work together with another existing feature, eye detect, so that when an eye is detected and manual focus is engaged, the zoom patch is on the eye instead of the center. Claiming that this will increase the price is preposterous. 

[LocalHero1953]

I would hope it is more precise than the current focus peaking. In AF, the eye focus can be absolutely sharp, but focus peaking has too much of a range. I look forward to hearing how good this is in practice.

(Perhaps the video posted above has this info, but I can't be bothered to watch 15 minutes of it).

[dpitt]

5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I would hope it is more precise than the current focus peaking. In AF, the eye focus can be absolutely sharp, but focus peaking has too much of a range. I look forward to hearing how good this is in practice.

(Perhaps the video posted above has this info, but I can't be bothered to watch 15 minutes of it).

As far as I understand from watching the video is that it will trigger the magnification area at the zone of the subject that is detected. So it will detect an eye (probably from the person standing closest to you if there are more) and then magnifies the eye. It was demonstrated with a Vöigtlander APO 50 MF lens.

There was some lag showing focus peaking and a square around the eye before zooming in. Not sure how much that affects usability. I suppose it will work in 95% of the cases for me. It is the other 5% that I am worried about. Just like moving AF focal points or selecting AF points, I tend to be faster with MF.

Maybe it is just me. I must also note that most of my gear is too old for reliable eye detection, so I do not have much experience with state of the art camera's with this feature.

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

It needs to have the face in reasonable focus to be able to detect. So there's some lag.

Focus and recompose was mentioned as being as fast. But that doesn't work with some lenses. Not all lenses have just the right amount of curvature to maintain the same point of focus across the frame. Especially wide open.

It's an extra tool in the bag, not the only tool. I don't think anything is perfect for every occasion. But the temptation to try a Zf, just for this feature is strong. My eyes are getting older and more tired. I'd like the option to have stuff like this when I need a break from the rangefinder.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

4 hours ago, dpitt said:

There was some lag showing focus peaking and a square around the eye before zooming in. Not sure how much that affects usability. I suppose it will work in 95% of the cases for me. It is the other 5% that I am worried about. Just like moving AF focal points or selecting AF points, I tend to be faster with MF.

Maybe it is just me. I must also note that most of my gear is too old for reliable eye detection, so I do not have much experience with state of the art camera's with this feature.

 

Mostly, I'm moving away from normal AF to cameras with eye detect when using AF. It's dead easy to have both. Most of my cameras are set up so that both are available depending on which button I press. On my Sony's I have single point on the shutter button as normal but if I press/hold the AF button on the back of the camera I instantly have eye detect and tracking. On the A7R5 it's a bit unnerving how good the system works. And it's about the same on the tiny A7RC. You can set up any modern Canon or Nikon like this as well.

On the SL2 it's more cumbersome. I can only program a button to bring up the Af menu and then I need to scroll to choose face/tracking etc... Hopefully the SL3 will allow more precision here by allowing a button to directly activate tracking when held down and spot AF when not.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

11 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

We are not talking about building a nuclear reactor, but to make an existing feature, zooming in when a manual lens focus ring is engaged, work together with another existing feature, eye detect, so that when an eye is detected and manual focus is engaged, the zoom patch is on the eye instead of the center. Claiming that this will increase the price is preposterous. 

Not a reactor. But it is Leica.

Gordon

p.s. The M10D sold out much quicker than Leica anticipated. Within a few months. They made a limited run and the cameras have high prices used as they're still sought after. I would not be surprised to see a limited run with an M11 variant at some point. Probably after the M11-P.