How Good Are Panasonic L Mount Lenses?

[kimvilar]

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On 10/14/2023 at 1:59 AM, aspherical said:

Would love to see some images.

Here some images I took with the S Pro 50 1.4 recently. 

At 1.6:

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At 1.4:

 

At f5:

 

At f1.4:

 

If you need more infos or higher res images, let me know.

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[Planetwide]

Anybody looking for a mint 50mm F1.4

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1821835/0#16322885

[Archiver]

There is one caveat, which may be very important. There is a reported fault in a number of Panasonic L mount lenses where an internal element seems to have a lot of cement separation and debris. This shows up as a bubbling layer which cannot be repaired. See these threads for examples:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4672629

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4730437

My only Panasonic L mount lenses are the 20-60 and 50/1.8. The build quality is light and reasonable, nothing flashy, but they are moisture and dust resistant (not proof) and they won't break the bank. The 50 is a very versatile lens with pleasant rendering and excellent sharpness, with very minor chromatic aberration. The 20-60 is quite sharp, but seems a little 'flat', and it has considerable distortion at 20mm.

I know someone who owned the APO 35 for some time before selling it and moving to the Panasonic 35mm f1.8. The image quality between the Panasonic and new Leica Summicron 35 SL seems to be much of a muchness unless you look really carefully side by side, although users may prefer the metal build of the Leica.

My current plan is to get the 35 and 85 in Panasonic, and look into the 24-105, with a lot of attention paid to the internal bubbling issue.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Archiver

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The Leica APO Summicrons just might be the best set of matched primes ever made, if you like flawless lenses (some don't). They're nearly perfect wide open and you only stop down for DoF. Every photographer deserves to try one at some point.

But they are a lot for what is really, marginal gains over some other really excellent options in the L mount. The SIgma and Panasonic lenses are truly excellent. If we're scoring out of a hundred the *weak* lenses are scoring in the mid eighties. So, they're all fine.

The Panny 1.8's emphasise consistency and breathing control over absolute sharpness but they're plenty sharp anyway. At APO levels? Of course not. But you're arguing over a few percentage points. Also the Leica variants aren't *exactly* the same, although they use identical designs. Leica assembles theirs in Portugal with different construction and quality control. I have been told by Leica (anecdotally, not with supporting evidence) that one of the elements is produced differently.

I currently have the 20-60 (excellent walk around lens), 70-200/4 (improved on the SL2 after the firmware update last year) and the 35 1.8. I don't shoot a lot of 35mm so it's an ideal compromise. It's very very good. And small and light. I'd have no hesitation using it for any purpose, even large prints.

Also the Sigma Art lenses are excellent. I really like the 14-24 and often carry it over the Leica, except when I need filters.

You're spoiled for choice with the L mount.

Gordon

[Shawn30]

Love the Panasonic 70-300. Super sharp, great colors, no CA issues, and light as a feather. I can’t speak to its durability. It doesn’t seem as solid as the Leica lens’s, but that would probably make it heavy.

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[Bikie John]

There is a reported problem with Panasonic lenses which has come up several times in A. N. Other forum. Apparently most Panasonic stuff is not repairable. If it goes wrong in the guarantee period they just replace it. If it goes wrong after that, tough luck - buy a new one or forget about it.

I don't have personal experience of this, but hearing about it has put me off buying anything too fancy from Panasonic - no matter how good it is.

John

[Chun Chang]

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On 10/11/2023 at 7:07 AM, Photoworks said:

I have the Leica zooms and the summicrons. I went true a round of testing with Panasonic and Sigma before setting on a set.

Panasonic Pro lenses are quite good, and some of them perform ak good as the leica version. Comes to mind the 50mm 1.4

Leica Panasonic and Sigma lense 24-70-90mm range are close, the 5% difference you are not always going to see.
Panasonic makes a 24-105 which is lighter, but it has optical weakness in almost the full range. Especially wide open

The new set of 1.8 lenses is ok until you compare it to others. They were made not for maximal optical performance, but for video in mind, good breathing correction, same weight, same size, all in all good performers. When you start to compare them with Apo lenses it is hard to say they are the same. 

I think Sigma has a range of lenses that compare in quality to some of leicas options.

 

The Panasonic are still better than M lenses on a SL camera. Just keep an open mind, and enjoy the process.

 

I was disappointed in the 1.8 primes.  I tried several before finding one that was okay across the frame.  They are Chinese made.  The 24-105 is okay, not great like the G 24-105 or Z 24-120.  I would choose the Sigma design Leica's over the Panasonic versions at similar cost.  

[Archiver]

18 hours ago, Bikie John said:

There is a reported problem with Panasonic lenses which has come up several times in A. N. Other forum. Apparently most Panasonic stuff is not repairable. If it goes wrong in the guarantee period they just replace it. If it goes wrong after that, tough luck - buy a new one or forget about it.

I don't have personal experience of this, but hearing about it has put me off buying anything too fancy from Panasonic - no matter how good it is.

John

I don't like the sounds of that, either. I've only had issues with one Panasonic lens, the 12-35mm v1 for micro four thirds, which had an autofocus motor glitch which made it unusable. Oddly, I tried it again after a year and it has resolved itself?!

I'm still using the Sigma 24-105 adapted to my S5, which is very slow to focus, but this isn't a problem with video as manual focus is fine. It would be great if Sigma makes a 24-105 in L mount as I like the extra reach compared with a 24-70.

85mm is my next focal length, so it's a toss up between the Panasonic 85mm f1.8 and the superbly sharp Sigma 85mm f1.4 - I've tried the latter and was wowed by it, but it's several hundred dollars more than the Panasonic and heavier, to boot.

[Archiver]

9 hours ago, Chun Chang said:

I was disappointed in the 1.8 primes.  I tried several before finding one that was okay across the frame.  They are Chinese made.  The 24-105 is okay, not great like the G 24-105 or Z 24-120.  I would choose the Sigma design Leica's over the Panasonic versions at similar cost.  

You might also consider the Sigma I Contemporary primes, which are reportedly very sharp across the frame. They do have considerable focus breathing, which is important if you intend to use them for video.

[BernardC]

On 10/19/2023 at 4:46 AM, Bikie John said:

There is a reported problem with Panasonic lenses which has come up several times in A. N. Other forum. Apparently most Panasonic stuff is not repairable. If it goes wrong in the guarantee period they just replace it. If it goes wrong after that, tough luck - buy a new one or forget about it.

That's one more reason to buy Leica lenses, even when they are based on Panasonic designs.

I see nothing wrong with a "replace-only" policy for cheaper lenses. It saves the manufacturer money, and it saves photographers time and aggravation. I wonder if Panasonic has Lumix repair facilities in their home market.

[Geoff C. Bassett]

To echo others the 50mm 1.4 is fantastic. Also loved the 85mm 1.8 when I had it, replaced it with the 75mm APO which is incredible and I find a better focal length. 

I find all the lenses to be excellent, none have "image breaking" flaws. I prefer Leica lenses not just for their sharpness but also how they render faces.

[Malabito]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:40 PM, Chun Chang said:

I was disappointed in the 1.8 primes.  I tried several before finding one that was okay across the frame.  They are Chinese made.  The 24-105 is okay, not great like the G 24-105 or Z 24-120.  I would choose the Sigma design Leica's over the Panasonic versions at similar cost.  

You realize the pana f1.8 lenses are the same leica sl f2.0 primes, but in a metal housing?

Basically same image quality, but in a heavier body.

I do like bettwe the handling of the sigma, but i prefer the colors and autofocus capabilities of the Panasonic ones, they are lighter and focus faster.

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, Malabito said:

You realize the pana f1.8 lenses are the same leica sl f2.0 primes, but in a metal housing?

Basically same image quality, but in a heavier body.

It depends who you ask! People here have reported that Leica uses their own aspherical element instead of Panasonic's molded asphericals. That would explain why some tests suggest that Leica's versions have better corner performance. Mind you, the difference could also come from Leica Portugal's manufacturing. Optics is a game of microns, and precision manufacture and assembly costs money.

All of these small differences add-up. Whether or not they are worth the money is your choice. You will also get a kit price if you buy a body and lens at the same time.

[PavelS]

On 10/21/2023 at 12:27 PM, Malabito said:

You realize the pana f1.8 lenses are the same leica sl f2.0 primes, but in a metal housing?

Basically same image quality, but in a heavier body.

I do like bettwe the handling of the sigma, but i prefer the colors and autofocus capabilities of the Panasonic ones, they are lighter and focus faster.

I am seeing similar comments regarding the Leica ASPH Crons 35/50 and Vario-Elmar 24-70 (and the new Leica 14-24) being "rebadged" Panasonic or Sigma respectively but no one have really proved it by disassembly the lenses and comparing the parts. Yes, the design of lenses is based on Panasonic and Sigma but we do not know how much of the design was changed and possibly improved. Metal housing and manufacturing consistency of Leica is definitely a plus in my book, the trade of is the higher price.

In one review I have heard that Leica Vario Elmar 24-70 have different motors and one more aspherical surface. Is it true? - I do not know. But I know that using the lens daily for work I really appreciate the very solid metal body of the Vario-Elmar. 

I have recently purchased Panasonic 50/1.8 specifically for low light event photography (with SL2-s) where its AF actually allows at least usable performance of Eye-Focus - AF-C mode - unlike the Sigma 50/1.4 which I love to use for portraiture. Sigma is "better" lens when it comes to overal image quality with smoother bokeh (although the Panasonic is not bad either) but unlike the Panasonic Sigma offers perfectly centred optics with all four corners being equally sharp. Panasonic not so much  And here comes the Leica ASPH 50/2 which according to the reviews is manufactured by Leica themselves to Leica tolerances and offers at least as good AF performance as the Panasonic (some reviewers say it is actually better with less or no "pulsing"). I will test the ASPH Cron 50/2 soon to have my own opinion on that issue. But I can imagine why would someone spend the money on solidly feeling metal body lens rather than the wobbly plastic counterpart. Please do not get me wrong - I have been using many plastic body lenses by Sony, Canon and Fujifilm, but the Lumix S 50/1.8 feels especially flimsy and cheap in comparison despite what Youtube "reviewers" say.

 

 

[Simone_DF]

16 minutes ago, PavelS said:

I am seeing similar comments regarding the Leica ASPH Crons 35/50 and Vario-Elmar 24-70 (and the new Leica 14-24) being "rebadged" Panasonic or Sigma respectively but no one have really proved it by disassembly the lenses and comparing the parts. Yes, the design of lenses is based on Panasonic and Sigma but we do not know how much of the design was changed and possibly improved. Metal housing and manufacturing consistency of Leica is definitely a plus in my book, the trade of is the higher price.

There you go, this is the special ingredient that Leica used to improve the rebadges. Now, that goes for 1000 to 3000€ depending on the amount of drops you use on each lens.

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[Malabito]

2 hours ago, PavelS said:

I am seeing similar comments regarding the Leica ASPH Crons 35/50 and Vario-Elmar 24-70 (and the new Leica 14-24) being "rebadged" Panasonic or Sigma respectively but no one have really proved it by disassembly the lenses and comparing the parts. Yes, the design of lenses is based on Panasonic and Sigma but we do not know how much of the design was changed and possibly improved. Metal housing and manufacturing consistency of Leica is definitely a plus in my book, the trade of is the higher price.

In one review I have heard that Leica Vario Elmar 24-70 have different motors and one more aspherical surface. Is it true? - I do not know. But I know that using the lens daily for work I really appreciate the very solid metal body of the Vario-Elmar. 

I have recently purchased Panasonic 50/1.8 specifically for low light event photography (with SL2-s) where its AF actually allows at least usable performance of Eye-Focus - AF-C mode - unlike the Sigma 50/1.4 which I love to use for portraiture. Sigma is "better" lens when it comes to overal image quality with smoother bokeh (although the Panasonic is not bad either) but unlike the Panasonic Sigma offers perfectly centred optics with all four corners being equally sharp. Panasonic not so much  And here comes the Leica ASPH 50/2 which according to the reviews is manufactured by Leica themselves to Leica tolerances and offers at least as good AF performance as the Panasonic (some reviewers say it is actually better with less or no "pulsing"). I will test the ASPH Cron 50/2 soon to have my own opinion on that issue. But I can imagine why would someone spend the money on solidly feeling metal body lens rather than the wobbly plastic counterpart. Please do not get me wrong - I have been using many plastic body lenses by Sony, Canon and Fujifilm, but the Lumix S 50/1.8 feels especially flimsy and cheap in comparison despite what Youtube "reviewers" say.

 

 

true, i guess we will never really know the truth. Regarding the leica been sharper on the corners, actually i only seen this said by the leica channel that is managed by the leica store in miami, rest of the reviews i seen say the Panasonic is sharper than the leica

At the end, people should buy what they want and what they can afford. I have the 24mm panasonic and the 35m sl apo, and if leica wasto come with a 24mm cron, and i had the $$$ i would probably end changing my pana for the leica, not because its better, but just because its a leica. 

 

 

[Ralf]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Simone_DF:

There you go, this is the special ingredient that Leica used to improve the rebadges. Now, that goes for 1000 to 3000€ depending on the amount of drops you use on each lens.

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Good one!

[TAFFY]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:14 AM, Malabito said:

I had the 50mm f1.4 and the 2470mm f2.8, they were as good as the leicas, and focused a bit faster. I ended selling them cause the 50mm was huge and i rarely used it and the 2470mm had the clutch mechanism, which for video is loved by many, but when used with a leica you are not able to use back focus button, (leica limitation, not really the lens).

Now i have a 24mm pana f1.8 which i use with the sl2s, the lens is very light, focuses faster than the apo leica ones, but image quality is not as good as the apos, perhaps as good as the newer smaller leica primes, (they are supposed to be the same lenses).

Given the weight, size and focal, is the lens i end using the most, I rarely take out the 35mm sl apo   Some samples below:

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This looks really nice. Very interested in this 24 1/8 now! 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Knipsknecht]

Recently I bought the Panasonic S 35mm f1.8 for my Lumix S5 L-Mount camera. I paid about 500€ for the new lens and I am really impressed by the pics I get from this lens/camera combo. To be honest, as someone who is by 99% into street- and travelphotography I don't need very fast ultra high quality lenes that a püortrait photographer or a professional product photographer would demand. But, given this, I can't see any reason for me personally to a lens from Leica for several thousand Euros when I can get almost perfect pics from a lens that costs one fourth or even one fifth of the price I would have to pay for a Leica lens. Maybe I would accept a slightly higher price for a much better quality of workmanship on a Leica lens. But definitely not to the extent that Leica shapes its prices.

Looking at the M-mount lenses from Voigtlander or Zeiss it becomes more and more obvious, that it is possible to produce the same quality as Leica (sometimes even better) for a fraction of the price. 

[algrove]

I own the 70-200 plus the 1.4x and good not be happier. Great parring with the SL2S.