Could the CL have a full size sensor?

[GFW2-SCUSA]

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I have no engineering knowledge whatsoever.  So if this question is foolish, forgive me. I find the CL to be a wonderful size and like most everything about it. I have an SL2 which is dandy, but large. I use the M10 and M10 Mono with pleasure, but there are times the rangefinder is not great - close-up and tele for examples. The Visoflex is okay. My question is: Could Leica put a full size sensor into a CL body?  Would it fit? Wouldn't it be a wonderful size camera, I think so. As I said, I have no knowledge of how these things work. 

Thanks for your collective indulgence! 

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Edited September 26, 2023 by frame-it

[sometimesmaybe]

33 minutes ago, GFW2-SCUSA said:

Could Leica put a full size sensor into a CL body?  Would it fit? Wouldn't it be a wonderful size camera

no reason why a FF sensor wouldn't fit inside the CL body. the issue is going to be lenses for an interchangeable system. my GFX body is only a tad larger than a FF mirrorless body, but the lenses are huge... even the 'pancake' 50mm is a bout the size of closed fist. hence i use m43 gear when i need the weight and space savings... the total system size is tiny

[wda]

Bigger sensor; more power; more heat; more cooling; starts to look like an SL body. Leica would see no need. Little possibility. 

[frame-it]

4 minutes ago, wda said:

Bigger sensor; more power; more heat; more cooling; starts to look like an SL body. Leica would see no need. Little possibility. 

Really? Then how come other manufacturers can do it?

its simply because leica doesn't want to eat into SL sales.

[jaapv]

I think the reason for abandoning the APS-C systems is a bit more complicated that that, like dwindling TL sales, phased-out X-series, development cost for a narrow market, etc.

Leica does not make cameras "because others can do it" 

As for eating into SL sales, better that you do it yourself than have the competition do so...

[frame-it]

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7 minutes ago, jaapv said:

As for eating into SL sales, better that you do it yourself than have the competition do so...

very true.

 

[Le Chef]

Apart from heat and energy consumption you still have sumo wrestler sized SL lenses that would imbalance a smaller lighter full frame camera.

I can’t see Leica being able to afford to develop a whole new lightweight range of full frame L lenses, so you are likely stuck with the L lens range.

The only out might be if Panasonic developed a new smaller lighter body that could be rebadged Leica and would take L lenses, and if Panasonic developed those lighter lenses with design input from Leica.

[padam]

They have already started coming out with those redesigned Panasonic primes. They are lighter and smaller.

Huge difference with Leica is that there is just nothing out there matching the compactness of M-mount.
And they have proven already that SL bodies are able to work well with them, both regarding focusing and image quality.
I do not think the system would have been nearly as appealing without that.

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

As for eating into SL sales, better that you do it yourself than have the competition do so...

Well, the competition is also focusing on selling their own lenses, so apart from Leica, I do not know who can provide such a camera.
(And I also know that the cover glass of sensors in other cameras can be replaced, but it's just not the same thing.)


So basically, they are just trolling at this point. They could release an M-mount mirrorless with the M design and price tag just to rub it in even more.

Rest of the rant is here - my hunt for the most enjoyable (least annoying) FF body to use with M lenses continues.
In the meantime, rangefinder glass is just too cool not to keep - but it would be nice to have that "perfect" camera that I would take out frequently...

Also funny, a used CL could have been a good replacement for the NEX-5N even if the factory adapter costs more than that Sony body...
But the fixed screen is just enough for me not to consider it.
If they made a CL-like SL with a fixed screen, I might still consider it - ok, time to stop dreaming and continue to adapt them to my Canon...

Edited September 26, 2023 by padam

[LocalHero1953]

I tried the CL (and TL2) with SL lenses, and it really was an unpleasant balance. That was before the rebranded primes and zooms came out, but the pleasure, or not, of balance is important to me.

[didier]

I loved my CL because of its size and possibility to have a short tele with a Summilux-M 50.

WIth bigger Lenses, I prefer a bigger body. I love the SL as well with SL lenses  

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, padam said:

Well, the competition is also focusing on selling their own lenses, so apart from Leica, I do not know who can provide such a camera.
(And I also know that the cover glass of sensors in other cameras can be replaced, but it's just not the same thing.)

Assuming you would want to use Leica lenses on the competition. There is nothing wrong with the native leses on other mirrorless APS cameras.

[padam]

Yes, but there is really nothing new about that. They exist, it's fine.
On the other hand, making a compact FF body with M (or L with M-mount in mind), that would be unique considering the amount of users out there who use rangefinder, or other types of manual lenses on all sorts to photo or video cameras besides or instead of their M cameras.
Building on the A7 series, only doing it properly a decade later certainly does not seem like an impossible task.
Just a simple lack of commitment to potentially decrease profits by making other models less appealing, that is probably all there is to it.

And it's not like this requires ground-breaking sensor or AF tech, maybe even the EVF can be mediocre, if focusing aids compensate for it.
Removing the shutter while keeping the camera usable (unlike the fp or pixii) wouldn't be bad either - but let's assume it does not need to be radical and it's something that somewhat fits in the line-up.  (that's one thing the Zf didn't need to reinvent either)
But one might also wonder: if an A1 could be done with roughly similar dimensions. then just how good such an "enthusiast" camera could really be, if it does not need to utilise nearly as much functionality. But even on the bigger SL bodies I don't see them rushing these things or they might not have access anyway.

Sooner or later the M cameras will likely to move towards that direction, and it will be interesting to see how people will react to it. Would they want creature comforts like IBIS and video or would they want it to be as "M-like" as possible?

[LocalHero1953]

15 minutes ago, padam said:

Just a simple lack of commitment to potentially decrease profits by making other models less appealing, that is probably all there is to it.

Shocking attitude from a commercial organisation.......

[GFW2-SCUSA]

My thinking was a full frame CL on which to use M lenses. I agree that using SL lens and other long lenses is a bit awkward, though I have done it without much suffering. I don’t really expect Leica to repent and bring out a new CL, as much as I would like to see one. 

[Le Chef]

If you’ve not done so yet, there is an enormous thread(s) on the M forums that covers this topic ad nauseam.