(Yet another) thinking of selling my Q2

[hoolyproductions]

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Given there have been so many posts along these lines (people moving back and forth from M>Q>SL, and other camera systems) I doubt anyone will learn anything new here, but maybe I will get some helpful reflections 😃

Short background: Shooting with Leica for around 10 years. Getting a Summilux-M 50mm for my Sony A7R was my ‘gateway drug’ to Leica in 2013, followed by several years with M cameras (M6, which I still have > M240 > M10). I (re)learned so much from using the M system, mostly with 50mm and 35mm lenses (and shooting film again) but in 2021 decided to get an SL2-S, for a few reasons including (i) wanting to use both wider and longer focal lengths (ii) wanting to experience ‘WYSIWYG’ mirrorless technology and (iii) whilst my eyesight is still very good in decent light I do a lot of low light music photography and the rangefinder focus patch was becoming more and more difficult to nail focus in this setting. Maybe some element of GAS also 😃 

I absolutely love the SL2-S (and also picked up a second hand SL2). The overall design, ergonomics/haptics, aesthetic, wonderful viewfinder, delightful lenses. In fact in my days of using Sony and Nikon cameras, this is pretty much the dream camera I would have designed for myself if I could have. In use “in my hands” I don’t find the weight and bulk an issue at all, but when doing more casual photography (and needing to carry also other things) it is sometimes more than I want to (or can) carry.

Until recently I have deliberately limited myself with lenses (because of cost and some ‘minimalist philosophy’). I have been mostly using the 50mm APO SL for music photography (sometimes I take a 75mm along, which I also love) and, a bit less often, the 24-90mm for daylight shooting, well-lit concert venues (where I need quick changes of focal length) and winter landscapes (in harsh arctic conditions where changing lenses is not a good idea).

In July last year I finally ‘caved in’ and got myself a Q2 for those occasions where I want something lighter (that wasn’t my iPhone). Looking back at 14 months of pictures from this camera I have the following observations:

• Initial ‘flurry’ of using the camera. A few outdoor music gigs in good light, fantastic shots (but mostly cropped to 50m or 75mm ish sizes)
• Similar flurry of candid shots of friends and family. Very nice shots (also many of them cropped to 50/75mm)
• Long periods without using the camera at all, but nice to have e.g. for weekends away when I don’t feel like doing ‘serious’ photography and/or I really need to travel light
• I took in general a break from photography during the first half of this year (just the occasional music gig, rarely shooting any camera otherwise) which led to me taking the Q2 instead of SL2/S on my recent summer holiday and really challenging myself to adapt to the style of shooting, which I enjoyed and got some very nice holiday snaps and landscapes (although guess what, many cropped to 50/75mm and longer focal lengths). This was the first time I really adapted cameras different style of shooting and it was a real pleasure.

Ironically, enjoying using the Q2 during my holiday (and some related GAS) helped to re-ignite my passion and led to me getting some lighter lenses for my SL2/S:

• Sigma 24mm f3.5. Super light and very sharp, if a rather slow lens. I generally use it for cityscapes (also works great with perspective control) and wider landscapes).
• Sigma 90mm f2.8. As above and quite a bit faster. Collectively these two lenses (with a 50mm) have ‘replaced’ my 24-90mm when I want a wider focal range, do not want to carry a bazooka, and don't need the quick changes of focal length that the zoom can offer.
• Summilux-M 35mm FLE II: After three years with autofocus I was nostalgic to try manual focus again, plus a faster lens with a more ‘painterly’ quality than the APOs. Winter is coming here so it’s a nice fast addition for music photography at close quarters or when I want to fit the whole band in the frame.

Whilst all three of these lenses (alone or in combo) make for a much lighter kit, it is still nearly double the weight (and bulk) of the Q2. Having said that, most of the time I would rather grab these than my Q2, mostly because I find the ergonomics, UI, versatility and viewfinder of the SL2 to be superior (but I guess I am still in honeymoon period with these lenses, which is also a factor).

I’m not in any big rush here, and no doubt will still get the occasional situation where I simply need to travel light (without the Q2 I would ‘only’ have my phone), or further periods where photography gets a bit lower priority and I might again prefer the lightweight flexibility of the Q2. My minimalist side tells me I have to reduce my kit a little, on the other hand the Q2 is already a ‘sunk cost’ so why not hold onto it. 

I’m not currently interested in a Q3, which would be another big outlay for what is unlikely to ever be a mainstream camera for me.

 Any reactions? 😃

[frame-it]

12 minutes ago, hoolyproductions said:

the Q2 is already a ‘sunk cost’ so why not hold onto it. 

 

[dpitt]

1 hour ago, hoolyproductions said:

 

 Getting a Summilux-M 50mm for my Sony A7R was my ‘gateway drug’ to Leica in 2013, ...

 

I’m not in any big rush here, and no doubt will still get the occasional situation where I simply need to travel light (without the Q2 I would ‘only’ have my phone), or further periods where photography gets a bit lower priority and I might again prefer the lightweight flexibility of the Q2. My minimalist side tells me I have to reduce my kit a little, on the other hand the Q2 is already a ‘sunk cost’ so why not hold onto it.

drug -> nice way to put it 😎 Mine was a used Leica Digilux 2 with its great Summicron Vario lens.

It looks like you have the top quality covered with SL2-S and lenses. The 'only thing' the Q2 brings is compactness and weight gain. But that can be a big thing. As I get older, I tend to appreciate the relatively small size and weight of my M more and more. My Leica X2 still is the absolute minimum I take with me before I resort to my iPhone Pro (I hate using a phone for pictures regardless of quality). The Leica TL2(with external VF2) , that I got recently to replace it, is struggling to differentiate enough with the size and weight of my M9. The X2 wins hands down against both of them, even when I pair them with the smallest lenses.

If ever you want to free up some money tied up in the Q2, I would look at a used digital M (even the M8 would do), combined with a lovely small lens. e.g. my Summicron 40C. I think you would enjoy shooting it more than with the Q2 and the size is even more compact. Results will be different too.In the end the M combo will keep more of its value and you might have a more convincing alternative to the SL2-S, even with all the limitations the M system brings.

Otherwise I would keep the Q2 for a long time and use it to bits. You can always keep up with progress with your SL system. The Q2 will still be one of the best compact systems, even 10 years from now.

[hoolyproductions]

Thanks for your thoughts!

Indeed one of the directions my brain went is using my two summilux lenses with a Leica M. Not a road I want to go down, at least right now (although I was very happy with this set up from 2014-2021). The M240 for me was not yet a fully complete camera, the M10 was pretty much there (but has some shortcomings). The still-super expensive M11 has addressed some of these and is the lightest iteration of the M line up, but way more expensive than I would consider for what would still be a 'second' camera and, on balance, I want to stay with a built-in EVF an WYSIWYG shooting (plus not have the 'overhead worry' about my rangefinder calibration).

I did have a CL for quite a while, maybe I should have held on to that one. If someone would release a good 16-55mm f4 lens (light and versatile) I might reconsider, but the current 18-55 (a really nice lens) misses the wider end which I like to have in a zoom. Also I don't want to go down the road of e.g. a Sony A6xxx - whilst the quality is there I don't want to work with multiple interfaces/menu systems/lens mounts. <edit> Similar to my Q2, I let the CL go because although it is a fine camera I nearly always selected the SL2-S for the better ergonomics and (at least in low light) image quality.

Although not in a rush what I didn't say is that I am interested in another APO lens and there is one in good condition and a reasonable price at my local dealer right now. Selling the Q2 would let me get that straight away, rather than saving and missing the opportunity. But I have a feeling that I might regret letting the Q2 go at some point and must admit I already have a fine and diverse selection of lenses, so I'll keep thinking about it

Edited September 13, 2023 by hoolyproductions

[Olaf_ZG]

I had the Q2, next to a SL and M. Sold it, cause 50mm is my main fl. bought a film camera instead and till now no regrets.

[Blackadder978]

Slightly same story here, but your SL2 is my Nikons with a good set of lenses, several telephoto lenses too. I like the Nikons (Z7II and D850) they are extremely capable and I need quite some longer lenses also in landscape. I bought the Q2 to fill a gap, which is Nikon picture quality in a very small package and she does that very well. The Q is indeed so light, that she is always with me, regardless if I go with a big backpack, a smaller backpack or just a purse. My main usecase for the Q is street, but sometimes landscapes which is the main usecase for the Nikons. I find myself cropping the Q pics very often and at least as often I convert them to B&W. Since you can crop the shit out of the Q2 pics and even more on the Q3, I am not so worried anymore about the 28mm lense that was my main concern when I bought the Q2 preloved since I was not sure If I can live with a 28 mm fixed lens. For whatever reason, Leica pictures are B&W for me, despite the Q producing very good colours.

I updated on the Q3 since the hubby wanted a Q2 as well and I thought then I can buy a Q3 and he can have the Q2. So I shoot Nikon mirrorless, Nikon DSLR, a Q3 and a drone in parallel and enjoy the individual qualities of each. I would not want to miss the Q, its a lovely, versatile and small camera and has its niche, as well as my drone that can go where I cannot. So do not give the Q up, a mobile is no alternative. I personally hate shooting without a viewfinder, I cannot properly concentrate on my picture, I only take it for quick snaps that mostly get deleted after it fullfilled its purpose. As you said, its sunk cost already 🙂

 

[Genoweffa]

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A beautifully written long piece about cameras

[Nachtmsk]

I have a Q2M and the original Q as well as an M10.

Each camera lets me see differently and approach my subjects differently. They are all fun to use.

The Q is really light and has fantastic image quality. There was a time when 24mp was amazingly large and shooters were thrilled to have it. Now, 60mp is the magic number. If the resolution keeps getting higher at some point you can just point the camera almost anywhere, take a picture and turn it into something in Post. That's definitely not my idea of photography. If it gets too easy, it's not fun. Same thing with too many options. Young shooters often go out with 3+ lenses in their bag or a hefty zoom in their bag so they are prepared for anything. I love having only the 28 with limited ability to crop. It makes more more creative and I hope, a better photographer.

The Q2 - fantastic tones. The weather sealing is great. I've walked around for hours in moderate rain and had no problems. High ISO and crazy dynamic range. So much fun to shoot at night. Also very lightweight.

M10 - First digital M that feels like a film M. This camera really makes me think when I am shooting. It's a pleasure. I also really enjoy using different lenses with different character. When I was young I thought the most important thing about an image was if it was razor sharp. No so much anymore. I'm much more interested in character and feel. Matching the right lens with the mood of the shoot.

 

My 2 cents on Leica cameras and shooting philosophy.

[bobtodrick]

1 hour ago, Nachtmsk said:

I have a Q2M and the original Q as well as an M10.

Each camera lets me see differently and approach my subjects differently. They are all fun to use.

The Q is really light and has fantastic image quality. There was a time when 24mp was amazingly large and shooters were thrilled to have it. Now, 60mp is the magic number. If the resolution keeps getting higher at some point you can just point the camera almost anywhere, take a picture and turn it into something in Post. That's definitely not my idea of photography. If it gets too easy, it's not fun. Same thing with too many options. Young shooters often go out with 3+ lenses in their bag or a hefty zoom in their bag so they are prepared for anything. I love having only the 28 with limited ability to crop. It makes more more creative and I hope, a better photographer.

The Q2 - fantastic tones. The weather sealing is great. I've walked around for hours in moderate rain and had no problems. High ISO and crazy dynamic range. So much fun to shoot at night. Also very lightweight.

M10 - First digital M that feels like a film M. This camera really makes me think when I am shooting. It's a pleasure. I also really enjoy using different lenses with different character. When I was young I thought the most important thing about an image was if it was razor sharp. No so much anymore. I'm much more interested in character and feel. Matching the right lens with the mood of the shoot.

 

My 2 cents on Leica cameras and shooting philosophy.

My philosophy as well.  Spent the day yesterday (on the road at 6am) shooting fall colors in rural Alberta (Canada).  All I had was my Q and a Rollie 35 for B&W.

1/2 the fun for me is having to look for subjects that lend them selves to a wide angle perspective.  I've gotten so used to the 28 on the Q that the 40mm on the Rollei just seemed to darn long  😄

I've already made a couple of great 11x17 prints from that 'measly' 24mp's.

[Nachtmsk]

2 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

My philosophy as well.  Spent the day yesterday (on the road at 6am) shooting fall colors in rural Alberta (Canada).  All I had was my Q and a Rollie 35 for B&W.

1/2 the fun for me is having to look for subjects that lend them selves to a wide angle perspective.  I've gotten so used to the 28 on the Q that the 40mm on the Rollei just seemed to darn long  😄

I've already made a couple of great 11x17 prints from that 'measly' 24mp's.

Cool brother! Absolutely. When teaching my son photography I gave him a single lens and said make something interesting with just this.

hehe.. yeah, I love the 28mm lens. On my M10 it's usually got the 35/cron on it, but I have a Voigtlander 40 that I really love using. An yeah, 40 is a bit tight!

Not even close to foliage here in Central NC yet. Post your stuff in the landscape forum, would like to see them.

[newtoleica]

I think this is the perpetual tug of having a second anything when it means you use your expensive ‘main’ less often. Be it cameras, bikes, guitars, the solution is to not have second systems but just concentrate on getting the very best out of the primary. 
I have one Stratocaster, a Brompton folding bike and an M7, M10-P and three lenses (24/35/50) and no regrets. 😉

[PluckinTones]

21 hours ago, newtoleica said:

I think this is the perpetual tug of having a second anything when it means you use your expensive ‘main’ less often. Be it cameras, bikes, guitars, the solution is to not have second systems but just concentrate on getting the very best out of the primary. 
I have one Stratocaster, a Brompton folding bike and an M7, M10-P and three lenses (24/35/50) and no regrets. 😉

Well said!

[Blueblood]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:31 PM, Nachtmsk said:

I have a Q2M and the original Q as well as an M10.

Each camera lets me see differently and approach my subjects differently. They are all fun to use.

The Q is really light and has fantastic image quality. There was a time when 24mp was amazingly large and shooters were thrilled to have it. Now, 60mp is the magic number. If the resolution keeps getting higher at some point you can just point the camera almost anywhere, take a picture and turn it into something in Post. That's definitely not my idea of photography. If it gets too easy, it's not fun. Same thing with too many options. Young shooters often go out with 3+ lenses in their bag or a hefty zoom in their bag so they are prepared for anything. I love having only the 28 with limited ability to crop. It makes more more creative and I hope, a better photographer.

The Q2 - fantastic tones. The weather sealing is great. I've walked around for hours in moderate rain and had no problems. High ISO and crazy dynamic range. So much fun to shoot at night. Also very lightweight.

M10 - First digital M that feels like a film M. This camera really makes me think when I am shooting. It's a pleasure. I also really enjoy using different lenses with different character. When I was young I thought the most important thing about an image was if it was razor sharp. No so much anymore. I'm much more interested in character and feel. Matching the right lens with the mood of the shoot.

 

My 2 cents on Leica cameras and shooting philosophy.

I’ve wanting a Leica Q since the beginning of the year, after using my full frame Nikon, from D600 to D810 and now D850, for 10 over years.

It will be my traveling and family camera. The Q3 price is too high for me to consider as my first Leica at this moment, hence looking for a used Q2.

My only doubt its high ISO performance, at the region of 3200 - 5000. Since you mentioned on its High ISO, will I regret buying it since I don’t do much of the post processing work on the computer. Also thinking of the rumour Q-E.

 

[Nachtmsk]

8 hours ago, Blueblood said:

I’ve wanting a Leica Q since the beginning of the year, after using my full frame Nikon, from D600 to D810 and now D850, for 10 over years.

It will be my traveling and family camera. The Q3 price is too high for me to consider as my first Leica at this moment, hence looking for a used Q2.

My only doubt its high ISO performance, at the region of 3200 - 5000. Since you mentioned on its High ISO, will I regret buying it since I don’t do much of the post processing work on the computer. Also thinking of the rumour Q-E.

 

I don't have any first hand experience with high ISO on the Q2. I have the Q2M; it's high ISO ability is due in part to it being a monochrome camera. I would imagine though that the regular Q2 would be able to handle the ISO range you mentioned (3200-5000) with little if any issue. 

[hoolyproductions]

Thanks again for all your reflections.

So this didn't quite go as planned, after setting a 'red line' on the Leica M11 I just went ahead and traded my Q2 (and a couple of lenses I rarely use) for a black M11 🙃

Cutting a long story short:

• I knew the M11 was a lot lighter and closer to an M6 form factor. I had not appreciated that it is even a little lighter than an M6. With one of my Summilux lenses it only weighs about 100g more than a Q2 and gives me my preferred 50mm focal length (and with a smaller lens it is even lighter than a Q2). The body plus lens weighs less than my SL2/S body alone.
• After a long break from shooting with a digital rangefinder I was curious to try my Summilux lenses on their 'intended' camera. So I'm compromising autofocus (and WYSIWYG, although of course I can use live view or EVF for this if I want to) instead of compromising with a fixed 28mm lens
• Fabulous as the Q2 is both in terms of function, form, aesthetics and design, after more than a year I realise I don't find it joyful to use. My Sl2/s camera still achieves this after more than two years and I think the M11 will be great when I want to travel light or go old school
• I've had the camera for a few days and have various first impressions, but maybe I'll post those on the M11 forums. I did shoot one very low light gig last night and the pics came out great. Focussing would have been easier with the SL2-S viewfinder (it was so dark it was quite tricky to see the rangefinder patch properly) but I got a pretty good 'keeper' ratio, about the same as if I'd used the SL2-S.

Edited September 29, 2023 by hoolyproductions

[Blackadder978]

On 9/23/2023 at 7:16 AM, Blueblood said:

I’ve wanting a Leica Q since the beginning of the year, after using my full frame Nikon, from D600 to D810 and now D850, for 10 over years.

It will be my traveling and family camera. The Q3 price is too high for me to consider as my first Leica at this moment, hence looking for a used Q2.

My only doubt its high ISO performance, at the region of 3200 - 5000. Since you mentioned on its High ISO, will I regret buying it since I don’t do much of the post processing work on the computer. Also thinking of the rumour Q-E.

 

The ISO performance is not great on the Q2, the dark parts of the picture have a lot of noise in that ISO range but you can easily remedy that in Lightroom with the new denoise function. Takes only a minute and the picture is in good condititon, but you need a denoise tool, either Lightroom or another specialized tool. 

Remember that with aperture 1.7 it takes a while until you get into that ISO region!