Colour filters: Yellow, Orange, Green, Red

[jip]

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Hello everyone,

I've got a M10 Monochrom and can't but help notice colour filters on the M10M are a lot more subtle than when used on my film bodies with TRI-X or FP4+. Am I crazy or is this actually the case. My assumption is that this is because of the reduced dynamic range of the film stock versus the sensor of the M10M. 

 

On film I often just use a yellow or orange filter and on digital I feel I lean toward red more often. 

On a side note, does anyone know the spectral response of the Leica Monochrom bodies, does it vary between the various models M9M, M246, M10M, M11M, Q2M?

 

Thanks!

[hdmesa]

You’re not crazy. To get the look of a red filter + TMAX 100 + Ilford high contrast gloss paper, you almost need to shoot the M10M/11M with a 720 IR filter or stack a polarizer on top of a red filter. Not sure why, and I’ve never heard anyone give a proper technical explanation. I believe we may also have more days per year with higher levels of particulate matter in the air (wildfires, etc.) that limit the number of days we get truly deep blue skies. 

You may want to go over to DPR and ask in the Leica forum about this and make sure and “@“ the moderator Jim Kasson. If anyone would know why, it would be him. And although he mainly shoots the GFX, he also owns a Q2M.

Edited September 8, 2023 by hdmesa

[a.noctilux]

@jip,

had you seen this ?

in my experiences, for my own pictures, I experiment colored filters with the monochrom sensors.

I searched topics using colored filters and I gave up.

[hdmesa]

I re-read @jonoslack's M11 Mono review, and I caught something he said: having to boost the blue slider on a b&w conversion from a color DNG to be able to match the same tones of the M11M on blue objects. That could mean the M11M is more sensitive to blue light than film as well, which could make skies less dark than they would otherwise appear and yellow/orange/red filters less effective in blocking blue light.

[Keith (M)]

Just over a month ago Sean Reid on his 'Reid Reviews' site published an article comparing the output of M10M & M11M with yellow, orange & red filters against the colours produced by an M240.  Subscription required - but well worth it for the extensive information contained therein.

[jonoslack]

On 9/9/2023 at 5:07 PM, hdmesa said:

I re-read @jonoslack's M11 Mono review, and I caught something he said: having to boost the blue slider on a b&w conversion from a color DNG to be able to match the same tones of the M11M on blue objects. That could mean the M11M is more sensitive to blue light than film as well, which could make skies less dark than they would otherwise appear and yellow/orange/red filters less effective in blocking blue light.

Hi There James

That's rather what I was thinking, and I'd guess it is borne out by the results. - I didn't try with different filters (as Sean did) - I certainly found that it was a bit hard to darken the skies. More so than with the M9M (which I did compare it to). 

Interesting and complex subject!

best

[jaapv]

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I don’t know about newer models, but with the M9M Leica went to great lengths to match the Delta 100 colour response, even changing the coating of the cover glass of the sensor. It was discussed extensively on the forum at the time. I also find that the digital monochrome needs more intensive filtering. Instead of mid-yellow on film I use Orange for a similar effect on digital. 

[ramarren]

On 9/8/2023 at 12:57 AM, jip said:

I've got a M10 Monochrom and can't but help notice colour filters on the M10M are a lot more subtle than when used on my film bodies with TRI-X or FP4+. Am I crazy or is this actually the case. My assumption is that this is because of the reduced dynamic range of the film stock versus the sensor of the M10M. 

On film I often just use a yellow or orange filter and on digital I feel I lean toward red more often. 

On a side note, does anyone know the spectral response of the Leica Monochrom bodies, does it vary between the various models M9M, M246, M10M, M11M, Q2M?

With my film bodies, I tend to use an orange or yellow filter most of the time ... I shoot and process for scanning, usually the issue is I need a little more contrast. If I get it on the film, the editing is closer to standard in image processing. 

With the M10 Monochrom, I find that yellow and orange filters produce more contrast (and less tonal variation) than I usually prefer; I have ended up with a green filter as my standard. This does a better job of separating out the color-tone scale and gives me more options in rendering. 

I posted this set of experiments using an Xrite Color Checker and a range of filters on the M10-M on another thread recently: 

Some recent work using a Summicron-M 50mm and the Leica Grn filter here: 

(Stills on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/gp/gdgphoto/87AmZJDzi8)

enjoy, G