Hasselblad X1D II 50C Medium Format with 45mm f/4 P Lens Kit Closeout Sale - Worth Considering to compliment my SL2-S gear?

[IkarusJohn]

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1 hour ago, MarkP said:

Are those rolls of film in your drawer  the same rolls you commented on three or four years ago?

😁

Probably!

Actually, no. They have been developed and have since been waiting on my desk to be scanned!

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[LBJ2]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:47 PM, lencap said:

Greetings!

I've written in the past about my Leica journey, from M film bodies to the SL2-S with many others in between.  I've happily stopped at the current SL2-S/50mm F/2 ASPH kit, which I bought taking advantage of Leica's bundle pricing along with an added voucher discount.  My first love, like many others, is the M body line of cameras, but my senior citizen eyesight doesn't allow me to focus M lenses with any precision or accuracy.  That's the reason for the SL line, and I also find the design/haptics wonderful.  But I've never gotten over my second love - Hasselblad.

There is a current "close out" of the Hasselblad X1D II 50C camera bundle including the XCD 45mm F/4 P lens offered at $4,200, an impressive $2,600 discount from the most recent pricing.  That's a bit less than I paid for the Leica SL2-S 50mm F/2 kit I recently bought.  I'm not planning on selling the Leica kit, I enjoy the haptics and images too much to abandon Leica after finally getting a setup that works well for me.  I know the Leica Q3 is the most likely companion to the SL2-S, both for size and quality reasons, but I've owned the Q 116 for many years and never got along with the 28mm focal length.  Over 6 decades of shooting the 50mm focal length is by far my "go to" choice, 35 is second, 28 a distant third, and the rest telephoto vacation shots.

Instead, I'm interested in adding the Hasselblad kit as a companion to the Leica kit.  The 45mm XCD F/4.0 is about a 35mm F/3.2 equivalent lens.  That's a useful difference for me, in a form factor not much different in size from the Leica SL2-S.  I can crop the Hasselblad image, if needed, and still maintain high resolution.  In a way it's a bit like the Q3 (yes, it's far larger and bulkier), allowing me to produce a lovely image when cropped with great detail and color, relying on a single focal length lens.  It's also significantly lighter than the Leica SL combo, a plus when shooting all day or traveling (arthritis forced me to admit that as much as I loved the 24-90 zoom, it was too much of a good thing as far as weight is concerned).

I know this isn't a likely duo on a Leica forum, but of all the cameras I've ever owned only Leica and Hasselblad gave me total enjoyment.  I've had many Nikon kits, and they worked well, but there wasn't a joy to them, or a desire to just hold them or look at them (the F3HP came close).  They were generic tools, and about as inviting as a refrigerator.  They did the job, but didn't push me to create something magical.  I never enjoyed anything more than developing 6x6 Hasselblad B&W film and making an actual physical print.  I never created a Henri Cartier-Bresson image, but I felt as if I had many times.  That's the feeling I want to continue to rekindle.

The nostalgia factor may be part of my Don Quixote Hasselblad quest, but at the highly discounted Hasselblad kit price it seems as if "the universe" is inviting me to take a shot, just like it did with my latest Leica kit. I bought it for the joy of looking at it, and if I actually created an interesting image, all the better.  That's what I'm looking for with the Hasselblad gear.  I realize that for the majority of the time each kit will likely be unused on my desk.  But, like a great toolbox, when you want to do something it's joyful to know that you've got the right tool at hand, and you can just go do what you want to do.

At this stage of my life I only want things around me that bring me joy, a smile to my face, and beg me to use them for the sheer enjoyment of the feeling I get when I use them to create something.  I miss film, but it's not practical for me now, and combining Leica and Hasselblad seems like a way to be done with GAS and rekindle the joy of photography I felt decades ago when my dad let me shoot his rangefinder camera and help him develop the negatives.

So my choice is a bit of apples and oranges, I know.  There's no real synergy there, but rather two different approaches to an enjoyable journey.  So, what say thee?  Should I take the Don Quixote quest to heart, or just be content with what I've got?  

Thanks for your thoughts, as well as the therapy of putting into words the thoughts rattling around in my mind.  The forum is a lot cheaper than visiting a psychiatrist!  Thanks to all!

 

I recently saw this video with some Hasselblad color details and comparisons with the photographer's description for reference. If like me you are interested in better understanding Hasselblad colors in this case the X2D 100C, you might find this brief summary/comparison helpful too. *He includes some before and after editing  samples too. 

If anyone else is interested, the colors topic starts about 7:31 marker

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by LBJ2

[lencap]

The Hasselblad kit is back in stock and in my cart, but for some reason I find myself struggling to click the PURCHASE button.  I've been reading Tom0511's post over and over, and I'm wondering if my fate will mirror his, with the Hassie getting more shelf time than use time.  

So this weekend I took the SL2-S kit with me to visit with some friends that I don't see often.  I wanted to capture candid moments, and was surprised that I found myself fiddling with the controls instead of shooting.  I've not invested the time to learn the nuances of the various modes - P/S/A/M - and six pages of menu choices, and couldn't easily get the settings I wanted as quickly as the M platform allowed.  

That's when I wondered if the Hassie kit was a search for greater image quality/handling, or an attempt to shoot more directly with fewer controls.  Gordon added to my confusion with the insightful post suggesting that the 907X is my real target, mimicking a the V form factor that I enjoyed when shooting film.

And that's when I realized why I'm having problems.  I've accepted that my eyesight is compromised, and that the M platform is more challenging to use than in years past.  But despite my "head" telling me that the SL2-S platform is the best tool for the job, my "heart" still loves the M body simplicity and immersive experience.   Despite knowing that the newer platforms are technically superior, and that post-processing tools are able to provide all the flexibility I'd ever need, the real world use case still comes down to more complexity and the steep learning curve of hundreds of camera settings combinations, and many more times that for Lightroom/Photoshop. 

So, until I can fully come to terms with whether or not the head or heart should be the reason for owning a Leica system, adding another body/brand/format seems to be skirting the true issue: Have I come to peace with leaving the M experience in the past?  

Sorry for the continued rambling nature of this post; it's surprising to me too, but photography is a hobby for me, and when it begins to feel like work it's losing it's joy.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, lencap said:

The Hasselblad kit is back in stock and in my cart, but for some reason I find myself struggling to click the PURCHASE button.  I've been reading Tom0511's post over and over, and I'm wondering if my fate will mirror his, with the Hassie getting more shelf time than use time.  

So this weekend I took the SL2-S kit with me to visit with some friends that I don't see often.  I wanted to capture candid moments, and was surprised that I found myself fiddling with the controls instead of shooting.  I've not invested the time to learn the nuances of the various modes - P/S/A/M - and six pages of menu choices, and couldn't easily get the settings I wanted as quickly as the M platform allowed.  

That's when I wondered if the Hassie kit was a search for greater image quality/handling, or an attempt to shoot more directly with fewer controls.  Gordon added to my confusion with the insightful post suggesting that the 907X is my real target, mimicking a the V form factor that I enjoyed when shooting film.

And that's when I realized why I'm having problems.  I've accepted that my eyesight is compromised, and that the M platform is more challenging to use than in years past.  But despite my "head" telling me that the SL2-S platform is the best tool for the job, my "heart" still loves the M body simplicity and immersive experience.   Despite knowing that the newer platforms are technically superior, and that post-processing tools are able to provide all the flexibility I'd ever need, the real world use case still comes down to more complexity and the steep learning curve of hundreds of camera settings combinations, and many more times that for Lightroom/Photoshop. 

So, until I can fully come to terms with whether or not the head or heart should be the reason for owning a Leica system, adding another body/brand/format seems to be skirting the true issue: Have I come to peace with leaving the M experience in the past?  

Sorry for the continued rambling nature of this post; it's surprising to me too, but photography is a hobby for me, and when it begins to feel like work it's losing it's joy.

Read this post was like watching Emmanuel Macron at the G10 Summit - walking in a straight line, then veering off at the last minute.

The M system is simplicity itself.  If you like photography, then stick with the M.  However, if your eyesight is compromised and you struggle with the OVF, then it might be time to use the EVF more, and consider alternative systems.

This is where the X2D appeals to me (having had an X1D II) - lovely to hold, nice big bright viewfinder and very simple menu architecture, nice lenses and great images, helped by a very good sensor and IBIS.

What drove me away from the X1D II?  I had 21-45-80-135 lenses, and tried to carry them with me (way too big and heavy) and the AF; principally the AF.  I photographed my niece’s wedding and the combination of poor fly by wire manual phocus and AF which just wouldn’t cooperate, it was an exercise in frustration.  The half dozen or so keepers I was happy with were fabulous (preferred by my brother and his family than anything the professional photographer produced), it wasn’t enough.

Why not stick with the SL?  Still all too big and heavy.  I like the SL, and I like using it with my M lenses, but my last AF lens is going.

[Olaf_ZG]

When I read the doubts of @lencap, it is like we have similar thoughts.

I also was thinking of a 907x, but in the end I went back to film, real MF, real simple.

That said, if my dealer offers same price as you mentioned, I will buy, and then SL will be “doomed” to zoom and m-lenses.

[lencap]

I appreciate everyone's stamina reading my posts.  Even I wonder where this thread is heading and what I'm trying to say.

Despite the many U-Turns and other meanders, the confusion likely stems from my frustration at how photography has changed, and my inability to change with it.  "Back in the day" I took a roll of film, loaded the camera attached a lens (usually 50mm) and took pictures only needing to change the aperture, exposure time and adjust focus.  The controls for these functions were clearly labeled, usually only performed one function and were at my fingertip.  When the roll was shot I brought it to be developed and printed.  Over time I learned to develop B/W negatives and print physical prints.  The key is that I didn't need to learn how to develop and print, it was an extension of my hobby and I chose to do it.

Now things are different.  Even with a "small" Leica menu there are 6 pages of options, and the combination of choices is overwhelming.  When the image is made I then have to go to Lightroom/Photoshop/Capture One to "develop" the image beyond the standard JPG format.  RAW files are very flexible, but I don't enjoy the learning curve, nor do I want to devote the time needed to learn the skills necessary.  With film I just let the lab do it, and when the job was done I had a physical picture to hold in my hand and enjoy.

I recently looked through one of my photo hard drives.  10K+ images, and I hadn't printed a SINGLE image - all were viewed on screen.  Unlike the old days of a light table to better see the black/white negative, the quality of my screen largely determines the quality of the viewing experience.  And if I want to share the image it's very hard to transmit a large image file and retain the fidelity and rendering that I chose when creating the image.

The result is my ability to compose/create/view images as I did "in the old days" doesn't exist as I knew it then.  I jumped on the digital bandwagon years ago, enamored by the technology and "ease" of creating pictures, but blind to what I was losing in terms of the joy of the tactile experience of photography.  Failing eyesight doesn't help, nor does arthritis and the other manifestations of an aging body.  Still, the hobby is enjoyable, and my challenge is to stop complaining and find a workable solution and a path forward.  

My weekend with the SL2-S that I mentioned above clarified the importance of this reality.  The key person I went to visit is 91, a friend for 50 years.  Getting together in person isn't something we take for granted, and we both realize we don't have 50 more years of enjoying each other's company.  We've shared some wonderful experiences, and I wanted to capture that feeling easily as a reminder of how important she has been to me.  Almost any of the film cameras I used decades ago could have done that, but the sleek highly capable SL2-S kit, and my lack of skill in understanding it fully, made that opportunity slip by.  I actually took some shots with the iPhone.  That managed to capture the moment in a picture, but was unfulfilling in every way.  It is like the difference in talking with my friend on a Zoom call (as COVID forced us to do) versus being face to face, laughing easily, and basking in the glow of a friendship now into its sixth decade.  That's what I want from my camera gear - the ability to capture that feeling, not just capture/create an image.   I realize writing this that I don't need another landscape picture - I've got thousands of them.  Capturing the people I love and enjoy is really the core of my photography going forward.  What kit makes that easiest is likely the one that will work best for me.   The technical components of the image are nice features, but the main event it capturing the subject, hopefully with emotion and joy.  That's why I prefer candid shots, and why I usually use 50mm focal lengths.  

And that's where your posts and comments help more than you know.  Yes, it's a twisting path as new thoughts grab my attention, and point out logic flaws in my reasoning, or help me face the inevitable "if you don't know how to use your tools, don't complain when the results aren't what you expect".  

So, I face the current situation with renewed focus (pun intended) to help me be clear about what I want from the 2023 and beyond world of photography, and how much effort I'm willing to put into that journey.  I don't have the answers, but at least I can begin framing the question and eventually find the solution.

Thanks for the help.

Edited September 11, 2023 by lencap

[Olaf_ZG]

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My neighbor just visited me. He’s poor, not able to make ends fit, though he tries. Earlier this evening I gave them some prints, the one shown in the “i love film thread”. He came to thank me, he was really greatful. Real prints, small (15x15cm), but tangible.

I took them with my rolleiflex, 60y old. Measure light, set speed plus aperture, focus click. Its the simplicity you want, and believe me, it is fun as well.

Expensive? Yes and no. I gave myself a budget of 100€ a month. I can should six years for the cost of an 907 plus some lenses. With this budget, i have 48 images, so better make them count.

Like you, landscapes or street is not what is important. People are.

yet, a digital mini mf keeps nagging on me…

[FlashGordonPhotography]

OK. I'll try to be sensible this time...... But no promises.

Lenscap's last few posts have given much information that was previously missing. An M shooter with (like the rest of us) diminishing eyesight Are you listening Leica? We NEED an EVF version that takes M lenses in an M sized body. AND you took the CL away!! An ex Hasselblad shooter. Current M shooter. NOT a fan of post processing.

1. Not printing is on you. A Canon Selphie printer is cheap and easy to use or at a pinch a Fujifilm instax wide (only get the wide). I use both of these all the time. My house is still happily flooded with prints.

2. I'm changing my recommendation based on your latter posts and I'm going to save you a ton of money. Don't but a Hasselblad. They're sensational and my favourite cameras but they reward shooting raw. Hasselblad doesn't want you to shoot jpegs. The original X1D with original firmware actually didn't write a full sized jpeg at all. That came much latter. 

3. At this point my honest suggestion is to but a Fujifilm XPro3, a 35mm 1.4 (that's the older one) which is a 50mm equivalent plus either a Canon Selphie or Instax wide printer (preferably the former). And that's it. Maybe a few extra batteries. It eats batteries. But that'll do for a while.

The XPro 3 is the absolute closest thing you'll get to an AF version of an M. Same size. Optical Viewfinder (with switchable EVF) in the correct location. Controls like you're used to. Aperture dials on the lens. It feels a bit light after using a Leica but you'll adapt. Fuji make a set of lovely primes for it and at a pinch a zoom lens will work just fine. But mostly it'll be your M on the days you're struggling with your M. Ignore the *it's not full frame* bull crap. It makes just sensational pictures.

And the biggest benefit. It makes fantastic jpeg files. Fujifilm replicate about a dozen film stocks in camera and really quite well although they're not really like film because they have at least double the DR of some of them (Velvia). But they're so easy to use and so well done you can just have raw as a backup or not at all. And you can print straight to an Instax Wide direct from your phone, if you want. Or to the Canon Selphie from your computer. The Fuji has awful menus but once set up you can really ignore them and shoot it like an M with a button set to change film stocks. Shutter, aperture and ISO are all mechanical controls. And it'll switch to an EVF from the OVF when you need it to.

Yes, I know you can do most of this with an SL2(S). But you're not enjoying the process and the jpegs are less accessible. Plus, it's not a camera that feels anything like what you've enjoyed in the past. I've used the SL system since launch. I really like them. But maybe not the best option for you? The XPro3 actively encourages you to shoot jpegs.

Reading your latter posts I think you're right. An X1DII might be the closest you'll get to a simple version of the M with AF and very high quality. I still think the 907x is a fun camera to shoot if you like shooting waist level and you want to slow down. You could put the new 55V or 38V on it and get a lovely experience. I'm just struck by your comments on simplifying the process. I don't think any 'blad, will do that for the post processing bit. Plus you'll get 4 XPro 3's for the price of one X2D. It's a relatively small risk. Plus you keep your M as you'll still use it. You may even carry both since the Fuji is so small and light.

If it doesn't work out then maybe revisit the Hasselblad itch.

Gordon

[lencap]

Flash - Good thoughts, thanks.  I had Fuji gear years ago, and found editing the files a challenge.  Likely it was related to their X-Trans sensor configuration, but regardless it was annoying.  I found their colors good for people, not as good on objects.  Like you I found the menus terrible.  My other gripe was that the camera often felt front heavy - I was using the X-E bodies.  I gave the kit to my daughter.

Before doing anything drastic it seems reasonable to consider the L adapter M (even with its expensive $450 cost) and using the smaller M lenses with real distance and depth of field markings.  I truly enjoyed all of my M lenses and the Summarit f/2.4 options are great value for the money.  The really terrific EVF should overcome my eyesight focusing issues, and the reduced total weight and size may make it easier to handle.  I had the SL-601 and the SL2-S is far more comfortable, at least for me.

The Leica JPEG files are reasonable, and if I want more I can learn some basic Lightroom tools and keep post production time to a minimum.  Going with this route the M lenses and adapter should hold value well, and I can take advantage of everything I liked with my M kit - smaller lenses, manual focus, hypercritical focus and accurate depth of field markings.  

[tom0511]

I find the Leica cameras and menues are simpler and more intuitive than all/most other digital cameras. 

Of course the SL is more complex than the M (because it has some functions) - but if you pay so much money, maybe you need to take a little time to get used to the camera.

I think the more cameras one owns, the more confusing it gets. (I know what I am talking about...  )

 

[Guido]

It’s been a while – so, what eventually came out of all of this? Did you pull the trigger? And if so, what was your subsequent experience with the camera?

Just asking because… well, currently a good X1d ii offer is staring me in the face and I’d like to get some more data points. Every morning, a new shortsighted, ex-M shooter and current SL2/S-owner regretting the sale of his 501cm is born 😀

[Dazzajl]

16 minutes ago, Guido said:

It’s been a while – so, what eventually came out of all of this? Did you pull the trigger? And if so, what was your subsequent experience with the camera?

Just asking because… well, currently a good X1d ii offer is staring me in the face and I’d like to get some more data points. Every morning, a new shortsighted, ex-M shooter and current SL2/S-owner regretting the sale of his 501cm is born 😀

I can possibly shed a little light for you here. I don’t shoot Blad but do have the 50 and 100mp sensors in the Fuji variants. Given that the difference in things like AF performance are not as big in the H versions as they they are with Fuji, if I was looking to get into the H system I’d would definitely go with the 1d over the 2. 
 

There isn’t a huge difference in look from the two sensors but if I had to pick the one which I like the look of more, it’s the 50. 
 

None of the MF offerings are going to feel speedy compared to FF cameras, so it’s a choice best made on IQ alone for me. 

[JoshuaR]

I just re-read this whole thread from start to finish, not realizing until the end that it was from last year. I was astonished by the sudden and surprising developments in the life of the forum. Olaf_ZG switching to film?! Lencap ditching his SL2-S for Hasselblad?!?! It was very disappointing to discover that it was all past-tense.

[IkarusJohn]

9 hours ago, Dazzajl said:

Given that the difference in things like AF performance are not as big in the H versions as they they are with Fuji, if I was looking to get into the H system I’d would definitely go with the 1d over the 2. 

Having had both, I would definitely go with the X2D.  The 50MP sensor in the X1D is still very good, but the improvements in the X2D make it a better option - not least, AF with the new v lenses.

[Olaf_ZG]

3 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

I just re-read this whole thread from start to finish, not realizing until the end that it was from last year. I was astonished by the sudden and surprising developments in the life of the forum. Olaf_ZG switching to film?! Lencap ditching his SL2-S for Hasselblad?!?! It was very disappointing to discover that it was all past-tense.

Olaf still has his Rollei, doesn’t use it as much as he should but the fridge is stocked…

[Dazzajl]

4 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Having had both, I would definitely go with the X2D.  The 50MP sensor in the X1D is still very good, but the improvements in the X2D make it a better option - not least, AF with the new v lenses.

Better but three times the price better? 
 

There are wonderful things about shooting MF but I would advise any prospective buyer to take a good look at what they want to gain and buy accordingly. We’ll all have our own answer 

[IkarusJohn]

3 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

Better but three times the price better? 
 

There are wonderful things about shooting MF but I would advise any prospective buyer to take a good look at what they want to gain and buy accordingly. We’ll all have our own answer 

Well, I sold out of the X1D completely out of frustration; so, a disappointing product was a poor investment, for me.

Have you used the X1D?

I agree that anyone considering any new photographic equipment to think about what they want to gain.  The attraction of the X system for M users is that both systems are contemplative. Both the X1D and the X2D are the best cameras in the hand, and the menu systems are very flat and intuitive.  There are, however, considerable differences between the two.

I don’t think price is really the factor (if it is, buying into the Hasselblad system might be an expensive mistake) - a comparison of the features of the two cameras will reveal the differences which may more decisive.  My own experience - sold the X1D and 21-45-80-135 lenses in frustration.  Some time later, bought the X2D and 38V lens, and couldn’t be happier.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

44 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

Better but three times the price better? 
 

There are wonderful things about shooting MF but I would advise any prospective buyer to take a good look at what they want to gain and buy accordingly. We’ll all have our own answer 

For me, yes. I have all the X bodies and lenses, except the 100C variant of the 907x. I haven’t used my X1D or X1Dii since my X2D’s arrived. I actually added a second (and third) one of the latter.

For me, who prints to A0 regularly, the biggest improvements aren’t the sensor. I still love the original. But the AF speed, IBIS, face detect, flip screen and improved EVF all make a huge usability difference.

If all you’re looking for is a AF variant of the M then fine. The X1Dii is smaller and lighter than the X2D and the AF is faster than manual focus. But the size and weight are the only benefits to the older bodies, IMHO.

Regardless of the body the V lenses make the MF experience about as good as it gets on a mirrorless camera. Very Q like.

Gordon

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Dazzajl]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

Have you used the X1D?

Not in any meaningful way, just to play with for a mo. 
 

I chose the GFX100 and a 50sII for my commercial kit because it’s a much better fit for my working life. If I was shopping for a playtime camera then it would have been the H because it’s more based around the pleasure of shooting. 
 

Getting a little off topic but the GFX100 is without doubt the very best camera I’ve ever used. The combination of features, build, adaptability, low light performance, usable dynamic range and peerless lenses still amaze me daily. It’s also the very last camera in line here that I’d pick up when shooting just for myself. It’s still just a tool. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

8 hours ago, Dazzajl said:

Not in any meaningful way, just to play with for a mo. 
 

I chose the GFX100 and a 50sII for my commercial kit because it’s a much better fit for my working life. If I was shopping for a playtime camera then it would have been the H because it’s more based around the pleasure of shooting. 
 

Getting a little off topic but the GFX100 is without doubt the very best camera I’ve ever used. The combination of features, build, adaptability, low light performance, usable dynamic range and peerless lenses still amaze me daily. It’s also the very last camera in line here that I’d pick up when shooting just for myself. It’s still just a tool. 

Yes. I’d agree with you. I have a GFX100ii and 100S plus some lenses. Mostly they fill all the holes in the Hasselblad line up. If I were choosing one purely as a tool it’d be the GFX. The Hasselblad system is a more emotional purchase based around the user experience. Kind of like Leica. So I guess most here, *get it*. The GFX100ii has the best EVF I’ve ever seen. Impeccable file IQ and great versatility. Still prefer the X2D to the Fuji though. I would choose the X2D for flash work as well. For my *work* (if you can call it that) as a travel photographer the X2D does all I could ask. And it’s smaller and lighter. But if I were shooting commercial full time again it’d be the GFX100ii for sure.

I’m doing another safari next July and taking the GFX100ii, 250 and 500mm lenses with the TC. As well as my Sony A1ii kit. The Fuji should make for some epic wildlife portraits.

Gordon