Internal differences between M2 and MP

[Vlad Soare]

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3 hours ago, Matlock said:

"We know for a fact that the plastic piece will eventually break". Do we? I have been using Leica Ms for over 30 years and I have never had one break, that is just silly talk.

Yeah, whatever. 
How about my question, though? Are you by any chance in a position to answer it? That would be awesome.

 

[Anbaric]

Google Bard, some internal componenents of older Leica cameras, like the M2, were made from metal, but in recent models, like the MP, they have been replaced by plastic. Can you tell me which ones?

'Sure. The following internal components of older Leica cameras were made from metal, but have been replaced by plastic in recent models:

    The frame counter
    The rewind crank
    The film advance lever
    The shutter speed dial
    The aperture ring
    The lens mount

These components were originally made from metal for durability and longevity. However, plastic is now a more common material for these parts, as it is lighter, less expensive, and easier to manufacture.'

[LocalHero1953]

A plastic lens mount? And I never noticed!

[250swb]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:59 AM, Vlad Soare said:

Speaking of the plastic part in the frame counter mechanism,

a) is it the only plastic part inside a modern Leica M (I'm talking solely about internals, not the ISO dial or other such trifles)?
b) when it finally breaks, can it be replaced with a metal one?

 

Of course it can, 3D printing can be done in metal, a new CNC profile can be created, or set up a lathe to do it by hand. But I get the impression the overall view here is of plastic being a negative trait due to cultural dysmorphia from a previous century. Formula 1 cars are mostly made from plastic due to strength, lightness, and not for cheapness. An ABS camera body will rebound on impact while a brass body will crush, a Delrin gear (plastic) has a lower friction coefficient that steel or brass.

[Vlad Soare]

8 hours ago, 250swb said:

Of course it can, 3D printing can be done in metal, a new CNC profile can be created, or set up a lathe to do it by hand.

Sure, but that's a lot of trouble and expense, not to mention the difficulty of finding someone who's able to do it in the first place. I was thinking more along the lines of using an M3 spare part instead - is it identical apart from the material?

 

8 hours ago, 250swb said:

Formula 1 cars are mostly made from plastic due to strength, lightness, and not for cheapness. An ABS camera body will rebound on impact while a brass body will crush, a Delrin gear (plastic) has a lower friction coefficient that steel or brass.

Yeah, but that's just theory for theory's sake. Formula 1 cars are made from extremely high-tech composite materials and carbon fibers. The fact that you can call that 'plastic' from a linguistic point of view doesn't mean it's the same material as what you'll find in a Leica M. The plastic thing in a modern Leica M does break from time to time. We know it does. And when it does, the fact that other 'plastics', from other industries, don't break isn't much consolation, is it?

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Vlad Soare

[Matlock]

8 hours ago, 250swb said:

Of course it can, 3D printing can be done in metal, a new CNC profile can be created, or set up a lathe to do it by hand. But I get the impression the overall view here is of plastic being a negative trait due to cultural dysmorphia from a previous century. Formula 1 cars are mostly made from plastic due to strength, lightness, and not for cheapness. An ABS camera body will rebound on impact while a brass body will crush, a Delrin gear (plastic) has a lower friction coefficient that steel or brass.

Yes but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. Our friend knows for sure that every new Leica will eventually disappear into a pile of plastic dust, so why disillusion him.

[Vlad Soare]

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3 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Yes but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

What truth? That Leica Ms are made from F1-grade composite materials? 🤣
Trolling and insulting me when you're unable to give a direct answer to a simple question doesn't bring anything useful to the conversation.
 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Vlad Soare

[Matlock]

7 minutes ago, Vlad Soare said:

What truth? That Leica Ms are made from F1-grade composite materials? 🤣
Trolling and insulting me when you're unable to give a direct answer to a simple question doesn't bring anything useful to the conversation.
 

The last person who accused me of being a troll was promptly removed from the forum. I am sorry that I can't give you a definitive answer as to the differences between M internals (I am sure someone can). However to imply that all new Ms will break is just plain daft.

[Vlad Soare]

1 minute ago, Matlock said:

The last person who accused me of being a troll was promptly removed from the forum.

I'll take my chances. Besides, I'm sure there's life outside the forum as well. I'll survive.

 

8 minutes ago, Matlock said:

However to imply that all new Ms will break is just plain daft.

Maybe. Indeed, an awful lot of Ms spend their life being worshipped rather than used. I'll give you that those will never break. 
 

[madNbad]

7 minutes ago, Vlad Soare said:

Maybe. Indeed, an awful lot of Ms spend their life being worshipped rather than used. I'll give you that those will never break. 

A lot of times it’s the shelf queen’s that malfunction. Lack of use and an unfamiliar user. The ones that are used all the time rarely need servicing.

Watch how someone loads their M camera and it will tell you how much they use it.

Edited September 4, 2023 by madNbad

[Matlock]

5 minutes ago, Vlad Soare said:

 

Maybe. Indeed, an awful lot of Ms spend their life being worshipped rather than used. I'll give you that those will never break. 
 

Far fewer than you would think, most are just used with very little troubles, it is only on forums such as this that is believed.

[250swb]

1 hour ago, Vlad Soare said:

Sure, but that's a lot of trouble and expense, not to mention the difficulty of finding someone who's able to do it in the first place. I was thinking more along the lines of using an M3 spare part instead - is it identical apart from the material?

 

If all plastic parts in a Leica will eventually fail that would be a good business to get into right now and get ahead of the game. Owners could even lay down spares as an investment ahead of the dreaded day. Paranoia would build, spares would need to be rationed, wild doom laden conspiracy theories would abound, and you'd get threads on the Leica Forum going in very much the same direction as this one has turned. 

But just so we know where to find them, where are these M3 spare parts stored, is it in the crate next to the Holy Grail? 

[Matlock]

11 minutes ago, 250swb said:

 Paranoia would build

Surely paranoia is the raison d'être of this forum.

[Anbaric]

14 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

A plastic lens mount? And I never noticed!

Not sure how long that plastic aperture ring, wind-on lever, rewind crank and shutter speed dial will last either...

[Anbaric]

Maybe ChatGPT is more reliable.

ChatGPT, why would Leica choose to make some of the components of their MP camera out of cheese?

'Leica, a renowned German camera manufacturer, does not make camera components out of cheese or any other unconventional materials. Leica is known for its commitment to precision engineering and high-quality optics in their cameras. They use materials such as metal alloys, glass, and advanced plastics to craft their cameras and lenses.

The idea of making camera components out of cheese would be impractical and detrimental to the performance and durability of the camera. Cheese is not a suitable material for building precision instruments like cameras due to its perishable nature, soft texture, and inability to withstand the demands of professional photography.

It's possible that you came across a humorous or fictional reference suggesting that Leica uses cheese in their cameras, but in reality, this is not the case. Leica's reputation is built on craftsmanship and quality, and they continue to use conventional materials to produce their high-end cameras and lenses.'

You see? Advanced plastics.

[Matlock]

9 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Maybe ChatGPT is more reliable.

ChatGPT, why would Leica choose to make some of the components of their MP camera out of cheese?

'Leica, a renowned German camera manufacturer, does not make camera components out of cheese or any other unconventional materials. Leica is known for its commitment to precision engineering and high-quality optics in their cameras. They use materials such as metal alloys, glass, and advanced plastics to craft their cameras and lenses.

The idea of making camera components out of cheese would be impractical and detrimental to the performance and durability of the camera. Cheese is not a suitable material for building precision instruments like cameras due to its perishable nature, soft texture, and inability to withstand the demands of professional photography.

It's possible that you came across a humorous or fictional reference suggesting that Leica uses cheese in their cameras, but in reality, this is not the case. Leica's reputation is built on craftsmanship and quality, and they continue to use conventional materials to produce their high-end cameras and lenses.'

You see? Advanced plastics.

I am not entirely convinced, some Dutch cheeses are pretty hard wearing. 

[Helge]

Not talking yet about really hard cheese like parmesan or pecorino….

[wizard]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Vlad Soare:

The plastic thing in a modern Leica M does break from time to time.

Exactly what plastic thing in a modern Leica M are you referring to? I am not aware of any "plastic thing" in a Leica M7, MP or M-A which is prone to or known to break "from time to time".

[Vlad Soare]

It's part of the frame counter reset mechanism. There are quite a few people around here whose frame counters don't reset anymore when they remove the bottom cover. This is apparently due to a plastic part that wears out over time. Known issue.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Vlad Soare

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Anbaric]

51 minutes ago, Matlock said:

I am not entirely convinced, some Dutch cheeses are pretty hard wearing. 

49 minutes ago, Helge said:

Not talking yet about really hard cheese like parmesan or pecorino….

These would probably be OK for amateur use. The problem seems to be their 'inability to withstand the demands of professional photography.'