Why Is There A QC Issue As Of Recent Years?

[maxfairclough]

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I am just astounded that over recent years, at least since I invested in a Leica MP (2020) that there has been endless QC issues with certain production models, backplate issues with some MP(serial number spacing, sharksin bubbling, backplate film scratching), M6 re-release, Titanium edition cameras flaking, lens issues etc.

It's endless. To put it nicely, what the fuck is going on at Wetzlar?

6 months minimum for repairs and services at the moment? In what world is this ok?

Hire/train more people. Is it a money issue? Is someone being cheap down the line? We have flagship stores all over the world now so I can't imagine it's that.

It is all a little concerning and rubs me the wrong way. These are such beautiful cameras that come with a premium price tag, but they seem to be built by wish.com lately.

Edited August 6, 2023 by maxfairclough

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[250swb]

What didn't exist before the perceived QC issues, I'll give you a clue, you just used it. 

Give people the opportunity to air their grievances in public to a wide audience and they will, before social media and the internet we had to write to each other, or pen a letter to the Editor but these never got published because the Editor didn't want to lose advertising. However for each person turning up to complain there are clearly thousands and thousands who keep quiet, I guess because they have nothing to complain about. It was forever thus, nothing has changed, only the messenger.

[LocalHero1953]

This would be a good thread to list pre-internet quality issues.

I'll start: M6 top plate zinc bubbling.

[Matlock]

3 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

This would be a good thread to list pre-internet quality issues.

I'll start: M6 top plate zinc bubbling.

And before that brass top plate distortion.

[LocalHero1953]

Just found this thread: https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/23570-problems-with-leica-ms/. See post 3, sentence 4 😁.

Edited August 6, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[maxfairclough]

You all make great points, but since when is a 6 month wait for repairs/servicing acceptable by todays standards?

[Matlock]

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2 minutes ago, maxfairclough said:

You all make great points, but since when is a 6 month wait for repairs/servicing acceptable by todays standards?

Some independent technicians are taking up to 2 years, depends on the work required.

[Jeff S]

39 minutes ago, maxfairclough said:

You all make great points, but since when is a 6 month wait for repairs/servicing acceptable by todays standards?

Maybe exacerbated by all the shipments from US customers, where service and QC are worse.

And you might have read something about a pandemic, supply chain issues, labor problems, etc.  “Today’s standards,” as you write,  are not such a high bar, across industries.

Jeff

Edited August 6, 2023 by Jeff S

[LocalHero1953]

38 minutes ago, maxfairclough said:

You all make great points, but since when is a 6 month wait for repairs/servicing acceptable by todays standards?

I agree with you on this point - it was an unacceptable three months when I sent a lens for recalibration a bit over 10 years ago, but six months last year.

That's not quality control though.

Edited August 6, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[madNbad]

It used to be it was a month before the next photo magazines came out and had a limited number of reviews and letters from users. Now, with the ability to post numerous messages across a number of platforms, things that were quirks or dealt with through the seller are broadcast to the world. 
Many of us that remember the less than favorable roll out the M4-2 received.

[Matlock]

16 minutes ago, madNbad said:

It used to be it was a month before the next photo magazines came out and had a limited number of reviews and letters from users. Now, with the ability to post numerous messages across a number of platforms, things that were quirks or dealt with through the seller are broadcast to the world. 
Many of us that remember the less than favorable roll out the M4-2 received.

And the poor quality chrome on the 1946 IIIc.

[Bronco McBeast]

Back then, life was affordable. Workers used to work and earn a life, a house, dream of a calm future.

Today, there’s no money you can pay a worker to make him happy, nor can you rely on a solid workforce. We are in unbalanced, shady and insecure times.

[kivis]

No QC issues with M-A or my M-P 240.

[250swb]

3 hours ago, Bronco McBeast said:

We are in unbalanced, shady and insecure times.

I guess you never lived through the Cold War when it was entirely possible everybody would be obliterated at the push of a button. I don't think anybody really cared if their lens was in Germany or the USA for repair as the Russian ships closed in on Cuba.

And talking of lenses, what about the Canada 35mm Summicron v4 which can fall in two!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by 250swb

[madNbad]

2 hours ago, 250swb said:

I guess you never lived through the Cold War when it was entirely possible everybody would be obliterated at the push of a button. I don't think anybody really cared if their lens was in Germany or the USA for repair as the Russian ships closed in on Cuba.

And talking of lenses, what about the Canada 35mm Summicron v4 which can fall in two!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

 

When I was growing up, I called our house ground zero because we lived between two naval air stations. I watched a lot of P2 Orions fly overhead.

Edited August 6, 2023 by madNbad

[spydrxx]

5 hours ago, Bronco McBeast said:

We are in unbalanced, shady and insecure times.

When I could afford a suburban apartment in the early 1970s I chose one across the street from a Nike missile base.. I figured it would either be total protection or instant annhiliation. 😄

[madNbad]

3 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

When I could afford a suburban apartment in the early 1970s I chose one across the street from a Nike missile base.. I figured it would either be total protection or instant annhiliation. 😄

We had one of those too, in addition to the ASW aircraft.

[Bronco McBeast]

11 hours ago, 250swb said:

I guess you never lived through the Cold War when it was entirely possible everybody would be obliterated at the push of a button. I don't think anybody really cared if their lens was in Germany or the USA for repair as the Russian ships closed in on Cuba.

And talking of lenses, what about the Canada 35mm Summicron v4 which can fall in two!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

 

It was a time where rent was affordable, and buying a Buick Skylark, or anything,  didn’t involve selling a kidney.

The difference between rich and poor wasn’t separated by today’s Grand Canyon.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[250swb]

2 hours ago, Bronco McBeast said:

It was a time where rent was affordable, and buying a Buick Skylark, or anything,  didn’t involve selling a kidney.

The difference between rich and poor wasn’t separated by today’s Grand Canyon.

 

Trailer's for sale or rent
Rooms to let, 50 cents
No phone, no pool, no pets
I ain't got no cigarettes

Ah, but, two hours of pushin' broom
Buys an eight by twelve four-bit room
I'm a man of means by no means
King of the road

 

Third boxcar, midnight train
Destination Bangor, Maine
Old, worn out suit and shoes
I don't pay no union dues

I smoke old stogies I have found
Short, but not too big around
I'm a man of means by no means
King of the road

 

I know every engineer on every train
All of their children, and all of their names
And every handout in every town
Every lock that ain't locked, when no one's around

 

I sing, trailers for sale or rent
Rooms to let, 50 cents
No phone, no pool, no pets
I ain't got no cigarettes

Ah, but, two hours of pushin' broom
Buys an eight by twelve four-bit room
I'm a man of means by no means
King of the road

 

Trailers for sale or rent
Rooms to let, 50 cents
No phone, no pool, no pets
I ain't got no cigarettes
Ah, but, two hours of pushin' broom buys...

 

Roger Miller (1964)

[Huss]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:41 AM, 250swb said:

What didn't exist before the perceived QC issues, I'll give you a clue, you just used it. 

Give people the opportunity to air their grievances in public to a wide audience and they will, before social media and the internet we had to write to each other, or pen a letter to the Editor but these never got published because the Editor didn't want to lose advertising. However for each person turning up to complain there are clearly thousands and thousands who keep quiet, I guess because they have nothing to complain about. It was forever thus, nothing has changed, only the messenger.

Using the current - and apparently still ongoing - film scratching issue.  There aren't thousands keeping quiet.  Leica admitted the production defects and claimed that it was only a batch.  But the admission was forced - only after being called out on it.  And they are staying as quiet as they can about it while still shipping defective MPs and M6s judging by recent complaints.