Flash to overpower daylight on film Leica M

[tomahurduc]

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Hello everybody!

I have recently become the owner of my dream (and first) Leica combo, a M4-P and 28 Elmarit, couldn't be more happy and grateful.

I'm coming from a couple of years of shooting street photography on digital Ricoh GR's and small flashes which I triggered wirelessly.

I am not interested in filling shadows but rather underexposing the ambient light enough in order to have the flash as my key light in every image. This was very easy enough on my GR's since their leaf shutter would allow me to shoot this way at ISO 400, using f8, and settin my shutter speed anywhere from 1/250 to 1/2000.

I got a small Metz flash which works wonders at night but in bright daylight (EV 11 and up) is not powerful enough to overpower the sun.

Are Canon speedlights compatible (in manual, I don't want TTL) with Leica M film cameras? Would a Canon Speedlight (from the 500ex series), with a Canon coiled sync cable and a 6 stop ND filter help me shoot the same way I would be able to shoot with my GR?

Adding one example picture, taken on my GR two years ago, to show you the look I want to have with my M4-P.

Very interested to hear your opinions or your setups, thank you very much!

 

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[jaapv]

Manual and automatic flashes are compatible but your maximum shutter sync speed is 1/50 you cannot use flash on a higher speed. 
For the type of work you do you’ll probably have to stop down to f11 or do. 

[hepcat]

Get yourself a $15 Vivitar 285HV.  It'll do the job.  

[stevieboy]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Manual and automatic flashes are compatible but your maximum shutter sync speed is 1/50 you cannot use flash on a higher speed. 
For the type of work you do you’ll probably have to stop down to f11 or do. 

 

Yeah, flash outdoors isn't one of an M4s strong suits due to the slow flash sync speed.  A bigger more powerful flash will work, but might prove unwieldy in an M's hot shoe, with the flash being bigger and heavier than the camera.   

 

Since flash exposure for a given power is determined by aperture and distance, one thing you can do, which might be what you want to use it for much of the time anyway, is stay close to the subject, as in your example pic.   

Another little hack is to go ahead and use a somewhat higher shutter speed on occasion, in the right situations.  The part of the frame that doesn't get the flash exposure will often not be where the subject is, if he or she is centered or toward the other side of the frame from where the shutter curtain blocks the flash, and the background is farther away.  

Edited July 2, 2023 by stevieboy

[250swb]

If you search Google and YouTube for the great street photographer Bruce Gilden you’ll soon get some clues about using a flash in daylight with a Leica M and a 28mm lens, an M6 in his case but essentially the same as your M4-P.

https://www.brucegilden.com/

Edited July 2, 2023 by 250swb

[tomahurduc]

9 minutes ago, 250swb said:

If you search Google and YouTube for the great street photographer Bruce Gilden you’ll soon get some clues about using a flash in daylight with a Leica M and a 28mm lens, an M6 in his case but essentially the same as your M4-P.

https://www.brucegilden.com/

Big fan of his work, he was the first street photographer using a flash that I learned about.

 

Still, videos of him don't really tell about his flash, sync speed, ND filters and so on.

[250swb]

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44 minutes ago, tomahurduc said:

Big fan of his work, he was the first street photographer using a flash that I learned about.

 

Still, videos of him don't really tell about his flash, sync speed, ND filters and so on.

But follow the links to people who have tried to emulate him. Gilden proves it’s possible, it’s just finding how he does it so consistently. I think we can assume he uses a small aperture for DOF because he pre focuses and has his camera in peoples faces. From there work back and if the sync speed is 1/50th what will the flash output be? He uses a small flash off camera so again you can begin to guess the power. Obviously for your photography you may need to adapt the flash output if you are further away, and maybe use a wider aperture, but the sync speed will remain constant.

Edited July 2, 2023 by 250swb

[Huss]

Get an M7.  It is the only film Leica M that can utilize High Speed Synchronization HSS with certain flashes.

From Erwin Puts:

 

Flash synchronization and TTL.
 In order to  use the TTL measurement, the shutter speed of the M7 must be set to 1/50.   With this speed the TTL functions correctly with dedicated flashguns (SCA-3501/3502) and SF20. With the new Metz 54 MZ3 a High Speed Synchronization can be used. The HSS function operates only with the combination MZ and M7 and now the faster  speeds from 1/250 to 1/1000 can be selected too.  The MZ3 works in manual mode only (not in Auto) and as the speeds of 1/60 and 1/125 are mechanically operated when using the speed dial (manual mode), the flash cannot be activated by these speeds. You can choose between synchronization on the first or second curtain. With the MZ 54 we can at last use fill-in flash on location with higher speeds and wider apertures.  For many this function will be of great value. Others will see it as unimportant as the M-domain is the available light photography. This however is too narrow a perspective. Luckily any photographer now has he choice to use the M as is required. The automatic TTL function is not supported with the 54MZ3 (only with the 1/50 or slower). At the HSSspeeds the user has to set it manually and this is quite easy and fast.
No the HSS is not usable with mechanical-shutter  Leica’s. The flash expects to receive specific electronic signals for proper functioning and the mechanical shutters do not have this signal. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Huss

[nicci78]

You can use ND filters to bring down the shutter speed down to 1/50th. Flash will take care of motion blur. 
 

By the way GR III with tiny Pentax flash AF201FG is absolutely awesome. Sadly Leica won’t be able to match it, due to slow horizontal cloth shutter limitations.