24-90 and OIS

[Carrot]

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Is OIS on the 24-90 permanently on, or does turning off IBIS on the SL2-S also turn off OIS on the lens?

[mumu]

the camera (SL2-S) decides whether the OIS of the lens is used or not

Edited May 13, 2023 by mumu

[drjonb]

1 hour ago, mumu said:

the camera (SL2-S) decides whether the OIS of the lens is used or not

I would appreciate your reference for this information please.  I believe that the camera only decides if the lens does not have its own on-off switch for OIS on the lens.  With my Sigma 60-600mm (latest version), if OIS is switched to ‘on’, on the lens, then the menu option in-camera to cycle OIS on/off is greyed out.  If the lens OIS is switched to off on the lens, then the in-camera menu OIS option can be cycled on or off.  And if OIS in-camera has been switched to off, when the lens OIS switch is set back to ‘on’, then the in-camera OIS in the menu is set to on and cannot be changed, until the lens OIS is switched off again.

[jaapv]

OIS  does not integrate properly when camera and lens are not of the same brand. Hence the switch on Sigma lenses. But the camera can detect whether the lens OIS is switched on or off. 

[mumu]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

OIS  does not integrate properly when camera and lens are not of the same brand. Hence the switch on Sigma lenses. But the camera can detect whether the lens OIS is switched on or off. 

100% agree, that's the point! If you have Leica SL native lenses, it works fine as described.

Edited May 13, 2023 by mumu

[drjonb]

22 minutes ago, jaapv said:

OIS  does not integrate properly when camera and lens are not of the same brand. Hence the switch on Sigma lenses. But the camera can detect whether the lens OIS is switched on or off. 

Are you sure about your first sentence?  In my experience with my Sigma 60-600 L-Mount, they integrate perfectly.  In fact, I believe that this is the intention of the L-Mount philosophy, because if the Sigma OIS is switched to on, on the lens, there is no way to switch OIS off in-camera.  That is, they are meant to work together with OIS on both lens and camera.

[drjonb]

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13 minutes ago, mumu said:

100% agree, that's the point! If you have Leica SL native lenses, it works fine as described.

My experience is that the in-camera and lens OIS work fine together with Sigma lenses that have an on-off switch on the lens.  

[drjonb]

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/magazine/m_series/l-mount/l-mount-lineup/

[jaapv]

As far as I am aware

22 minutes ago, drjonb said:

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/magazine/m_series/l-mount/l-mount-lineup/

Nowhere does it state complete compatibility as far as I can see,  nor does it claim IBIS-OIS integration for five-axis stabilisation. 

Having said that, just switching oi the `lens OIS works pretty well.  Programming the function. buttons. to your taste even better.

[drjonb]

45 minutes ago, jaapv said:

As far as I am aware

Nowhere does it state complete compatibility as far as I can see,  nor does it claim IBIS-OIS integration for five-axis stabilisation. 

Having said that, just switching oi the `lens OIS works pretty well.  Programming the function. buttons. to your taste even better.

“Compatible with in-camera image stabilization^*1

Compatible with in-camera image stabilization, the camera automatically detects the focal length of each lens and optimizes image stabilization performance.”

This is from the web link I posted earlier. There are numerous other references to compatibility on the web. There would be little point in an ‘L Mount Alliance’ if, “OIS  does not integrate properly when camera and lens are not of the same brand.”. 

Based on my experience using L Mount Sigma lenses on my SL2-S, it is very clear that the two L Mount brands do work very well together, something I confirmed with Leica specialists prior to buying the 60-600.  

[drjonb]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

OIS  does not integrate properly when camera and lens are not of the same brand. Hence the switch on Sigma lenses. But the camera can detect whether the lens OIS is switched on or off. 

May I respectfully suggest that you use your good offices to seek direct clarification from Leica, Panasonic and Sigma, regarding the compatibility of OIS between L Mount lenses  and Leica SL cameras.  In particular, is the statement, “OIS does not integrate properly when camera and lens are not of the same brand” correct or not.  I assume by “brand”, you meant Leica/Panasonic/Sigma brands and not the ‘L Mount’ brand.  It would be a great pity if Leica users considering a non-Leica L Mount lens were inadvertently and unintentionally put off considering one because they think that OIS will not work properly.  Perhaps you could also ask these manufacturers to provide a definitive list of the L Mount lenses where full OIS integration does work seamlessly between the brands.  

[drjonb]

1 hour ago, drjonb said:

“Compatible with in-camera image stabilization^*1

Compatible with in-camera image stabilization, the camera automatically detects the focal length of each lens and optimizes image stabilization performance.”

This is from the web link I posted earlier. There are numerous other references to compatibility on the web. There would be little point in an ‘L Mount Alliance’ if, “OIS  does not integrate properly when camera and lens are not of the same brand.”. 

Based on my experience using L Mount Sigma lenses on my SL2-S, it is very clear that the two L Mount brands do work very well together, something I confirmed with Leica specialists prior to buying the 60-600.  

Apologies for the bold capital letters….I copied and pasted and did not realise this error as I was on my phone!

[BernardC]

9 minutes ago, drjonb said:

May I respectfully suggest that you use your good offices to seek direct clarification from Leica, Panasonic and Sigma, regarding the compatibility of OIS between L Mount lenses  and Leica SL cameras.

This sounds like a misunderstanding. One person says that the menu control for OIS is different, based on the brand of lens mounted (and whether or not it has an OIS switch), and the other person understands that OIS performance is somehow compromised.

Let's be perfectly clear:

• OIS performs the same way on L-mount lenses, regardless of which camera you are using. Even legacy EOS-mount lenses can use OIS on L-mount cameras, with the right adapter.
• The procedure for turning OIS on and off is different for different types of lenses: if there's an OIS switch on the lens, use that; if there's no OIS switch, use the menu.

 

[drjonb]

9 minutes ago, BernardC said:

This sounds like a misunderstanding. One person says that the menu control for OIS is different, based on the brand of lens mounted (and whether or not it has an OIS switch), and the other person understands that OIS performance is somehow compromised.

Let's be perfectly clear:

• OIS performs the same way on L-mount lenses, regardless of which camera you are using. Even legacy EOS-mount lenses can use OIS on L-mount cameras, with the right adapter.
• The procedure for turning OIS on and off is different for different types of lenses: if there's an OIS switch on the lens, use that; if there's no OIS switch, use the menu.

 

There is definitely a misunderstanding somewhere here, but I will not be presumptuous and opine as to who is misunderstanding.  My only point is to get clarification regarding the statement, “OIS  does not integrate properly when camera and lens are not of the same brand.”, because my experience with Sigma and my SL2-S is that, for the lenses I have used, the OIS does integrate properly.  Moreover, the results I have obtained with the 60-600mm are way beyond my expectations, having used Nikon cameras and long glass in the past - my speculation is that this performance is because the respective OIS systems do integrate well.  Your points would appear to support my (mis?)understanding that seamless integration of OIS between certain Sigma lenses and certain Leica bodies is possible and in fact works very well.

I do not really follow your points on menus, and compromised OIS performance.  There may be opinions on this, but I am not sure how it would be possible to really do an apples for apples comparison of the degree of integration of OIS between different brands.  My point on the SL2-S menu is that the camera does recognise whether an L Mount lens has OIS, and whether it is switched on or off; and when it is switched on on the lens, the menu does not allow you to switch off OIS in the camera.  As far as I know, there is no menu option in the SL2-S to switch on or off the lens OIS.

[jaapv]

The point here is the interaction between OIS and IBIS which will only work if a lens and camera are of the same brand. Simply switching OIS on or off is a non-issue. Either by a switch on the lens or in the camera, like Bernard sys. 

[drjonb]

46 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The point here is the interaction between OIS and IBIS which will only work if a lens and camera are of the same brand. Simply switching OIS on or off is a non-issue. Either by a switch on the lens or in the camera, like Bernard sys. 

“The point here is the interaction between OIS and IBIS which will only work if a lens and camera are of the same brand.”  According to you or according to whom? Please can you provide a reference to testing showing this, or something from a manual or a web page to verify this - all of the direct experience I have and all of the references I have found, point to the opposite of what you are stating as a definitive fact.  I will write to my contacts in Leica and Sigma to seek their clarification on this.

Switching on or off OIS is of course a non-issue, so I have no idea why you mention this - this was never the point.  

What you are not addressing is the actual factual information I have mentioned related to the SL2-S menus and how they behave with my Sigma 60-600mm, behaviour which provides a clear indication that the ‘OIS’ and ‘IBIS’ are ‘working together’ in some way - whether such interaction is deemed to “work”…. I will defer a further judgement on the latter until I can get some clarification from the manufacturers.

[jaapv]

Please -reread multiple posts in this thread-not only by me. BTW Panasonic has a good clarification of five-axis stabilization by IBIS-OIS interaction on its site, albeit for MFT

 

 

 

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[drjonb]

14 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Please -reread multiple posts in this thread-not only by me. BTW Panasonic has a good clarification of five-axis stabilization by IBIS-OIS interaction on its site, albeit for MFT

 

 

 

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I note that you have still not provided any references or justification for your statements that OIS and IBIS, “will only work if a lens and camera are of the same brand.”  This information you provide related to Panasonic in no way corroborates or validates your claims.  I have nothing further to add on this, and, as I said above, will seek clarification directly from the manufacturers.

[jaapv]

Let us know… 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[beewee]

This guy has been on multiple threads covering OIS asking for first hand information which does not exist in written form here and will not be posted by manufacturers on a third-party forum. He’s gotten the same answer from many different people, which is that you need same branded body + lens on L-mount to benefit from OIS+IBIS at the same time.

Over the years, Leica and Panasonic, have mentioned this in interviews through their engineers and product managers. I can’t be bothered to go through 4+ years (since the L-mount Alliance was announced) worth of sources to find exactly who actually said this.

There’s no point repeating the same questions over the over again on this forum because you’ll get the same answers. Go reach out directly to Leica and panasonic and hope for an answer, or comb through 4+ years of written and video interviews to see who said what.

Edited May 14, 2023 by beewee