Is the M11 a safe purchase yet?

[maidenfan84]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I was deciding between a used M10 or a new M11. I intend to keep the camera for a long time so I settled on the M11. I’m curious to know if I should avoid it and reconsider, or is it pretty safe, overall? I read about many freezing issues, viewfinders out of alignment, etc and it does put me off quite a bit. But, I don’t know if these are rare cases, or if they’re widespread. Please advise, thank you, in advance 

[hdmesa]

Freezing M11s are rare unless they happen to you, in which case they stop being rare.

Rangefinder alignment can be an issue on any new M. It's not common but it's not uncommon, either.

Freezing issues have been resolved for some but not others.

Given how long the M11 has been out, I would wait for the P version, which can't be that far off.

I gave up on the M11 but am not going back to an M10 variant. Instead I'm using the SL2-S and adapting M lenses. I can't go back to not having an electronic shutter for shooting at wide apertures in bright daylight without an ND filter. For the M experience, I'm happy with using the M6 for now.

[neonvoid]

My first M11 had a vertical rangefinder patch misalignment, as well as it's replacement, albeit to a lesser degree.
My M11 also freezes.

Is the camera still functional and a great fun to use? For me personally - yes, but if I knew about these issues before purchasing I'm not sure what my decision would be.

Edited April 29, 2023 by neonvoid

[Viv]

I should imagine that most M11s do not freeze.

Mine doesn't.

[Jeff S]

9 hours ago, maidenfan84 said:

I was deciding between a used M10 or a new M11. 

The M10-R is also an option, well past buyer beta testing.

Jeff

[Photoworks]

the latest firmware addressed the freezing issue.

It is safe to buy and enjoy.

since 1954 M cameras need to get a mechanical rangefinder alignment, It can happen next year or in 10 years, not a big deal.

the M11 is the hottest M camera now.

M11-p will have to wait one more year to be announced, new cameras come out in a 4-5 year timeframe from Leica.

 

Go for it and enjoy

[colint544]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Writing this is surely asking for trouble, but I got an M11 a few weeks ago and, thus far, it's not missed a beat. The rangefinder is brighter and clearer than any I've ever used before. Zero issues so far.

[Jeff S]

5 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

the latest firmware addressed the freezing issue.

 

Not for everyone reporting in the M11 freeze thread.

Jeff

[Photoworks]

8 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Not for everyone reporting in the M11 freeze thread.

Jeff

Sure there are few people, but I bet it is 1% of M11 users. I am sure some people are using Voigtlander, and others need repair. 
 

Since the latest firmware I had one freeze, and I didn't have time to reset the setting before using it after the update, I will one day! For now, I am happy.

[Jeff S]

All we know are reports here… more than 1 in a hundred posting…we know absolutely nothing about overall user experience.

Jeff

[Leica Filmmatic]

I’ve had the camera freeze 3 times since I have owned it for about 6 weeks.  Most of the time there is no issue 

[Photoworks]

16 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

All we know are reports here… more than 1 in a hundred posting…we know absolutely nothing about overall user experience.

Jeff

Do you have the M11?  

what issues are you experiencing?

[Jeff S]

16 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

Do you have the M11?  

what issues are you experiencing?

No, not an early adopter; entirely predictable. And I’m fully satisfied with the sister M10-R and M10-M models, even if the M11 were problem-free.

Jeff

[Photoworks]

7 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

No, not an early adopter; entirely predictable. And I’m fully satisfied with the sister M10-R and M10-M models, even if the M11 were problem-free.

Jeff

my experience in this forum is that there are people who stir up the pot when they don't even use the camera.

I had the M10-R side by side with the M11, for me the M11 is better in every way, the m10-R was not getting any use and I was happy to sell it.

[Jeff S]

2 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

my experience in this forum is that there are people who stir up the pot when they don't even use the camera.

I had the M10-R side by side with the M11, for me the M11 is better in every way, the m10-R was not getting any use and I was happy to sell it.

Your experience here is limited.  Vigorous discussion and complaints about the M8 and M9 issues, for instance, led to changes and improvements, and even included an acknowledgement and apology in the forum by Leica management for certain issues. Subsequent model discussions were addressed by FW updates and other changes.  
 

The M11 offers nothing important for my shooting and printing style compared to my M10-R.  Each to his/her own.

Jeff

[maxpower]

I've been using my M11 since Feb 2022 and I haven't had any major issues myself, sure I have experienced a freeze every now and then but not often and battery pull resolves it and I've never had it twice on one day either, so it hasn't caused me any important missed shots yet. I'm very happy with the camera overall and I know I'm not alone in that. For me it was my first M as well so I can't really compare with previous models, but afterwards I did get a (used) M10M and that does make me think I would've been perfectly happy with the M10-R as well. They're all great cameras honestly, and they all seem to have great lifespans as well from what I read online.

Any electronics can fail, I hope mine doesn't for a long time (or ever) because I do want to say that the long turnaround times I've heard for repairs don't sound encouraging. But that'll be the same with any Leica. 

[SJH]

Yes - I’ve had my M11 new since it came out and no freezes, using it with both modern and vintage uncoded lenses.

Pretty much better in every way than my M10R BP from the far better battery life, USB-C charging, no faffing with a bottom plate, the fact that a 35mm can also now be a 45.5mm and a 63mm for example with ample resolution = less lenses to carry, better EVF if you use it, no issue with shooting .95 in bright sunlight and the list goes on.

As with any camera release now there will be a very small minority that have issues but the internet tends to accentuate these!!

The other issue these days is that people post multiple times about the same thing within say the ‘M11 Freezing’ thread, again this makes it look far worse. Equally you hear of people on their 2, 3rd or even 4th M11 and of course most people involved in the tech world will realise this has a high probability of a) being caused by an individual rare use case b) user error. Speaking to Leica they of course recognise that there have been a relatively small number of freezes but firmware now is complex and they’ve managed to cover most of it with 1.6. Some people would have you believe it’s turning into M9 sensor gate again but I really don’t think it’s the case and Leica don’t either. 

Again people tend not to post positives but so far my M11 has been more reliable freezing wise than my M10M (which went through a bad patch - check out the forum posts) and my M10R.

Clearly it’s never good when it happens to you and then we tend to post multiple times these days, I’ve only had one faulty Leica which was a Q2 that showed a different f stop than was showing on the lens itself, Leica replaced it immediately. 

If you are one of the very few that gets multiple freezes (out of the odd one or two that all brands get) then take a picture/video, send it back to Leica and get a new one. However, you’ll be buying the best ever M yet by some margin!

[SJH]

11 minutes ago, Somchai said:

I don’t think the M11 will ever be a “safe” purchase. Unfortunately it is what it is and we don’t have to get into it.

The new digital M purchase at the moment that isn’t a gamble is the last true great M digital for me, the M10R.

The benchmark is my M10R. I’ve been shooting it weekly, and daily when I’m on vacation since, well let me check..: October 12, 2021 is when I bought it brand new. and the only issue I’ve had since I bought it was 1 bad SD card I ended up throwing away. 

No freezing.. coded/uncoded lenses whatever. No battery pullouts. No corroded 6bit sensors/reading lenses problems. No issues with humidity or moisture getting through the mount. No shutters getting stuck or stop functioning. No out of alignment anything. No red light of death. No trips to the Leica store for issues. I’m just a random person with a random M10R.

The only thing I’ve done to it is change the strap and clean the sensor a couple of times. 

I see a lot of people saying “My M11 has been great” but then they add “sure it does luck up and I have to pull the battery out weekly, but that’s no biggie”. I had a Sony A5000 once. it was plastic and cost me a few hundred bucks. It never froze or required battery pull outs. 

If your $9,000 Leica M camera freezes regularly and you have to pull out the battery then this isn’t acceptable to me. (And maybe that’s just me)

My camera cost me $9,200 (it’s the M10R Black Paint) and I wouldn’t accept anything less than perfection. Otherwise I could’ve just stuck to my Fuji or Panasonic and save myself all that money. I’m not a millionaire.

If you decide to get an M11, you will also get a random M.. 11. let’s see how it goes with yours. 

Good luck with your decision. 

I get many of your points about the wonderful M10R BP (I had one) but it sounds like you haven’t actually bought and tried an M11 personally to base your views upon? For example the M10M went though a patch of a) getting hot b) freezing but this did get largely resolved but to this day people still get the odd freeze here and there.

Also people don’t actually take the basic steps to remove user case error e.g. if your M11 does freeze have you formatted both the internal memory (most people don’t it seems) and SD card, equally reset the camera and use it in factory default with a modern lens for a few days to see if it freezes then etc. If you do this I suspect that Leica will be far more sympathetic to replacing it if it turns out to be the small percentage DoD that all electronic goods come with these days. 

[skchurch]

I have had my M11 for about a month (as well as an SL2-S, purchased within a week of one another) and I can say, I haven't had one problem with my M11 (I did updated to the latest Firmware and format the internal memory and SD cards). And, I have never had more fun with any camera I have ever owned with the M11 (including the new SL2-S), coming from a Nikon Z9 and all of their excellent S-Line Zooms (talk about big and heavy...whew!). It's beautiful to hold (feels so premium and solid in the hands...it's like fine jewelry or a well crafted analog watch), has slowed me down to really think about how to "make an image" as opposed to "taking a picture(s)." Even just having the one (new version of the) 50-mm Summilux has made thinking about composition, and DoF more mindful than just quickly running through focal lengths and taking (so) many images to cull through at the end of the day -- as opposed to fewer, more well-thought out compositions. I'm very happy I got an M11 vs. an M10-R as I do value the changes made to the system and except for the drain on my bank account, everything about it has exceeded my expectations. I'm really enjoying the Leica "magic" and feeling lots of excitement and joy when I go out to crate images and keep learning/growing in my photography.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[MrPaulK]

I'm not sure what counts as a "random person" but I went out and bought an M11 and used it, didn't do anything special, and use it with a variety of lenses from a variety of manufacturers. I've had 2 freezes, basically back to back, no others. I'd say I'm pretty random. (I purchased before ever coming here)