M11 Monochrom vs. M10 Monochrom - Image Thread, including some links to DNGs

[Chaemono]

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Starting to go through them now. This is to kill time until I post links to DNGs, too. No DNGs, nor less compressed JPEGs for these. They were opened in Preview from DNGs, exported as TIFFs, and then exported from LR to meet LUF JPEG specifications. I exposed them equally not by changing ISO here, I used ISO in some other ones, but by adjusting shutter speed because they were taken at base ISO. And let's not argue that M10M base ISO is not 160. I've checked ISO 400 and it did not provide visibly more highlight details. 

Which one is from the M11M and which from the M10M? Shot with the APO 50 Summicron at f/4, focus point is on the lady on the pedestal, and one is with a shutter speed of 1/2000 sec. and the other with 1/1500 sec. Hint, which one has the wider tonal range even at these LUF compressed JPEGs from untouched DNGs?

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[Chaemono]

I shot DNGs and JPEGs today. One can basically use the in-camera JPEGs from the M11M. They look amazing. The M10M in-camera JPEGs look like they still need some processing. I will post the JPEGs straight from the cameras of the two images above a bit later. The M11M is the best rangefinder M ever, IMO. I'm absolutely enamoured of this camera. 

[rtai]

You have an M11M already? Didn’t know they are already available for sale. I’ll go look at one next week.

[Chaemono]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb rtai:

You have an M11M already? Didn’t know they are already available for sale. I’ll go look at one next week.

Leica changed the policy. When the camera is announced and the embargo ends for the testers, at that hour the camera is available for sale, which was exactly at 1500 CET on April 13. I had put down my name a long time ago.,

[Chaemono]

Now these two are kind of funny. I stopped down the 75 Noctilux to f/4 resulting in shutter speed of 1/4000 sec., and each camera at its base ISO.

M10M from opened DNG in LR otherwise not touched

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M11M from opened DNG in LR otherwise not touched

[Chaemono]

And here processed in LR

M10M

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M11M

[Chaemono]

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How about these two? I will call it quits for today. Will post more tomorrow. 

M10M processed in LR

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M11M processed in LR

Edited April 14, 2023 by Chaemono

[derleicaman]

Thanks so much for posting these pictures. I look forward to your full report. As the owner of an original MM1 and now a M10-M, I have some experience with the monochrom cameras. I am not sure what I am seeing here between the two cameras, but the M11-M images seem to be much flatter than the M10-M images. I think being able to see some high res images aside from the low res ones on the LUF will tell more of a story.

[Chaemono]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb derleicaman:

Thanks so much for posting these pictures. I look forward to your full report. As the owner of an original MM1 and now a M10-M, I have some experience with the monochrom cameras. I am not sure what I am seeing here between the two cameras, but the M11-M images seem to be much flatter than the M10-M images. I think being able to see some high res images aside from the low res ones on the LUF will tell more of a story.

Fair point. I haven't even posted links to download DNGs as mentioned in the topic of this thread. I won't do a report but will post links to download DNGs tomorrow.

[Chaemono]

I will post links to download the DNGs of these two tomorrow and hopefully a number of others. I still need to go through some of the pictures. 

M10M from opened DNG in LR otherwise not touched

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M11M from opened DNG in LR otherwise not touched

[Chaemono]

One think I’d like to mention is, that unlike for the SL2 vs. the SL2-S, a BSI sensor in the M cameras doesn’t seem to change the background blur at all as can be seen in #7. 

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, derleicaman said:

 I am not sure what I am seeing here between the two cameras…

And you won’t be without making your own shots, edits and prints, under varying conditions, IMO.  Myriad intervening variables, especially considering forum viewing, not the least of which is the default tone curve provided. Entertaining, but it stops there for me.

Jeff

[Jon Warwick]

48 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

And you won’t be without making your own shots, edits and prints, under varying conditions, IMO.  Myriad intervening variables, especially considering forum viewing, not the least of which is the default tone curve provided. Entertaining, but it stops there for me.

Jeff

I agree, and doing my own photos and prints is something that I hope to do when I test out the camera, and separately very much look forward to seeing some DNGs as and when Chaemono kindly provides them later on. I think Chaemono's images in post #10 continue to reflect my gut feel about the untouched DNGs from the M11M vs M10M, however, ie, the former seems to have less macro contrast and starts out flatter with more open shadows. That's a nice way to start the processing for my taste (it more mimics the very "open" and flat contrast drum scans that i get done), whilst also noting I typically reduce contrast & list the Blacks slider out of the gate in ACR on my M10M to start the DNGs where I want. So the M11M is closer to my favored starting point, it seems. The question is whether i can match the two fairly easily in ACR etc, in which case it's more of a moot point, but that's up to me to properly test out.  Still, battery life / EVF resolution / in-built memory card / higher megapixels are also things for me to take into account.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Jon Warwick

[Chaemono]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Jon Warwick:

I agree, and doing my own photos and prints is something that I hope to do when I test out the camera, and separately very much look forward to seeing some DNGs as and when Chaemono kindly provides them later on. I think Chaemono's images in post #10 continue to reflect my gut feel about the untouched DNGs from the M11M vs M10M, however, ie, the former seems to have less macro contrast and starts out flatter with more open shadows. That's a nice way to start the processing for my taste (it more mimics the very "open" and flat contrast drum scans that i get done), whilst also noting I typically reduce contrast & list the Blacks slider out of the gate in ACR on my M10M to start the DNGs where I want. So the M11M is closer to my favored starting point, it seems. The question is whether i can match the two fairly easily in ACR etc, in which case it's more of a moot point, but that's up to me to properly test out.  Still, battery life / EVF resolution / in-built memory card / higher megapixels are also things for me to take into account.

Here are the links to the DNGa of the pictures in #10

M10M https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g184358495-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=EYtOYiVMolMgjCDK8eqbee2XhfBGNNBxAJ_bmHmKJkM=

M11M https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g80840329-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=WqtYiJGmmcvZ9iyph73WyxeizUIeiZzmZipdzgBUMaU=

[Chaemono]

Two more DNGs with the M11M. I blew the highlights on the left in the M10M picture of the first and, therefore, no link for that. The second is just for tonality. I wanted to respect the women's privacy. 

M11M link to download DNG here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g367449459-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=PbVFO0nfTtq0hUbVU9NMbrJ3OB2l97bRn0S1wlQKgKA=

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M11M link to download DNG here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g244364254-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=abG_yyp9gnemhnCPdqi-erFnCQUJGKiV3otkf5qNoD0=

[Jeff S]

36 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

I agree, and doing my own photos and prints is something that I hope to do when I test out the camera, and separately very much look forward to seeing some DNGs as and when Chaemono kindly provides them later on. I think Chaemono's images in post #10 continue to reflect my gut feel about the untouched DNGs from the M11M vs M10M, however, ie, the former seems to have less macro contrast and starts out flatter with more open shadows. That's a nice way to start the processing for my taste (it more mimics the very "open" and flat contrast drum scans that i get done), whilst also noting I typically reduce contrast & list the Blacks slider out of the gate in ACR on my M10M to start the DNGs where I want. So the M11M is closer to my favored starting point, it seems. The question is whether i can match the two fairly easily in ACR etc, in which case it's more of a moot point, but that's up to me to properly test out.  Still, battery life / EVF resolution / in-built memory card / higher megapixels are also things for me to take into account.

One can create a different starting point merely by changing default import settings and/or by creating presets.  
 

Jeff

[Chaemono]

Wrong file in #15. I wanted to provide a link to the ISO 400 DNG, not the ISO 200. Download of DNG here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g211574655-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=ICR1h1QSPF8J59Ii3G8NM4D8MJgPG79JkOrBESmHzXE=

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[Chaemono]

I'm thinking, instead of doing these comparisons with the M10M, perhaps it would make sense to shoot the same scene with M11M without filter, with yellow filter, and with orange filter and show these.

[algrove]

Could be wrong, but your first images look to be from the old square in Frankfurt over by the river.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Chaemono]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb algrove:

Could be wrong, but your first images look to be from the old square in Frankfurt over by the river.

Yes, it is. There’s also an English Wikipedia article on it but the picture in it doesn’t show the square as much as the German article https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Römer_(Frankfurt_am_Main)