Adapter // Infinity focus // FLE

[Mak67]

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Hi,

Wondering how do you get on this problem:  

I try 2 sample of Leica M/SL adapter and both are longer than expected, this mean Infinity marking is not matching Infinity focus ...  Using liveview when i focus at Infinity with the wate, then distance marking on the Lens is arround 3meters ... Well you could think that ok focusing with liveview, but this Lens has a floating element correcting for best performance at each distance, now you get it ! 

When focusing for an object at 3meters, then the Lens is set at 1m resulting in   a correction for 1m instead of 3m ...

This problem might occur with all FLE lenses (wate, 35fle,50asph... ) .

Did i had just Bad Luck with thoses two adapters? Are yours good fitted ?

Do you have a good adapter with perfect focal flange to share ?

 

Thanks 

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[jankap]

Of what make are these adapters?  Can you upload a picture of the adapters?

I have one for an old lens, that is too short. That is better, but an infinity stop would be nice. That was the first one, that missed!

Edited April 12, 2023 by jankap

[Mak67]

Sorry, got it too Quick and wrong, it is not too long ... But too short as yours

Doesn't change m'y problem regarding FLE and wrong distance .

It's the Leica one 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Mak67

[jankap]

I should have noticed that, I also was too quick. 😋

Perhaps then you can shim it. Others also use adapters.....

[frame-it]

from the user manual>>

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

[Mak67]

I've ordered a new one to make sure .... 

But, i've seen quite a lot of comments from people who said their Fle were best on M (i know the microlens offset is différent) ... But when i seen the result i get with the wate, could be only due to bad focal flange of adapter when using FLE.

Testing against my sl16-35, i get pretty good result from the wate, i mean better corner, but worse center.

Test it again this morning, infiny focus show 2/3m on the Lens a get good corner and soso center , same goes in interior focusing on my library (3m) i get best focus with the Lens set to 1m , center is never fully sharp but corner are ok , let's say that the fle is wrong set.

 

No-one get this problem using the Leica M-L ? 

 

 

[wizard]

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vor 23 Minuten schrieb Mak67:

No-one get this problem using the Leica M-L ? 

Each and every adapter, if correctly manufactured, will allow a lens to reach the optical infinity position slightly before the mechanical infinity position of the lens. Else you may not be able to reach true optical infinity position if tolerances of the lens, adapter and camera flange accumulate in an unfavorable manner. In other words, whatever the tolerance accumulation of your lens, adapter and camera flange will be, it must be possible to reach the true optical inifinity position. That may only be ascertained by constructing and manufacturing the adapter such that a lens to will reach the optical infinity position slightly before the mechanical infinity position of the lens itself. Hence you will see what you have noted. i.e. the distance markings on the lens will not coincide with the real distance. This is how it has to  be.

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, Mak67 said:

No-one get this problem using the Leica M-L ? 

I suppose you didn't read the instruction above.

For thermal expansion of materials the adapter allows you to focus past infinity with Leica M-L adapter.

It is normal. 

M lenses performer similar to the M camera and SL2, FLE has no effect, and only compensates for back focusing issue on the old lenses.

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, wizard said:

Each and every adapter, if correctly manufactured, will allow a lens to reach the optical infinity position slightly before the mechanical infinity position of the lens.

Professional adapters for motion picture work usually accept shims, but that's not something that most stills photographers want.

The M-L adapter should just be long enough to focus to infinity in very hot conditions, with a lens that is within tolerances. That means it's "slightly short" in colder conditions.

The WATE and 18mm are probably the two lenses that will show the greatest variation between scale focus and EVF focus, because of their short focal length.

[Mak67]

I Can agree on a small amount, but in my case this not a small amount ... It's 1/3 of the total rotation.

Maybe a faulty batch of adapter as the second one i test was from the same dealer.

Anyway, i'll see how it goes with the New adapter ...

 

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, Mak67 said:

I Can agree on a small amount, but in my case this not a small amount ... It's 1/3 of the total rotation.

Here's the macro lens extension formula:

1/f = 1/d + 1/s

• f is the focal length of the lens
• d is the distance between lens and subject
• s is the distance between lens and sensor.

A 16mm lens focuses to infinity at 16mm extension. You need to extend it to 16.085mm to focus on an object 3m away. Thus, your L-M adapter is 0.085mm too short for a WATE.

By comparison, a 50mm lens is 50.85mm from the sensor at 3m focus distance. The margin of error is 10x greater.

You could ask Leica service if they have a 0.08mm shim for the M-L adapter.

As I wrote earlier, that's a standard part for a motion picture lens. Maybe Leica uses shims at the factory.

 

[jaapv]

15 hours ago, BernardC said:

Professional adapters for motion picture work usually accept shims, but that's not something that most stills photographers want.

The M-L adapter should just be long enough to focus to infinity in very hot conditions, with a lens that is within tolerances. That means it's "slightly short" in colder conditions.

The WATE and 18mm are probably the two lenses that will show the greatest variation between scale focus and EVF focus, because of their short focal length.

Fortunately this problem gets less serious as focal length decreases and DOF increases.

[Mak67]

Not really, it is easier to see any decentering, and it is much harder to focus.

I received a New adapter which is much much better, and run some test @infinty and medium distance.

Definitly something is playing with Lens distance setting (don't know if it's the fle or asph part).

Using live view, shooting and then shooting a 2 shots bit in front focus and 2 shots a bit in back focus, then choosing the best shot: 

-Using the first adapter : corner are tack sharp, center Never get really sharp.

- Using the second adapter : coner loose a bit, center sharpness improved a lot.

Well, the wate is pretty good, almost on part with my sl16-35 @f8,  (as expected far behind wide open ).

Infinity focus Lens marking with the New adapter for best overall image (corner+midi+center): 

16mm : 1mm past 5m

18mm: 2mm past 5m

21mm: 1mm before infinity stop

 Liveview experience: i have no problem manual focusing the 16-35, but the wate is really hard to focus.

well, i really wanted to like the Wate, but i'll return it ! 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Mak67

[Jean-Michel]

I have the  ML adapter and it works perfectly with all my M lenses, and even with a Canon FD zoom lens with is own adapter to M plus the ML. When I use an M lens with my SL2 I never look at the lens’s distance scale since I am framing, focusing and photographing. The location on the scale is irrelevant. I also have the WATE and it works equally well with the adapter, focusing easy enough at any of the focal lengths or f/ stops — it it rather difficult to miss focus that lens! I actually prefer to use the WATE with my M-P(240) and the EVF, frame with the EVF and check focus if needed with the rangefinder.

 

 

 

 

[Mak67]

For small print "almost focused" is ok, but to make perfect use of the 47mpx, and print large you need perfect focus ! And this Lens is definitly not easy to focus perfectly on the Sl2... (Dof, doesn't help here to get perfect focus, it just make almost focus in front and back of the focus point, but not tark sharp focus).

My sl16-35 make perfect easy manual focus (even if they share almost the same aperture)

My other M lenses works ok:) , but it is much easier to focus a f1.4 or f2 (35-50-90) than a 16 f4 with so-so resolution wide open.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mak67]

When the wate is dead on focus, it's pretty brilliant ...

But too much effort for me, it remind me the focusing war with digital back and WA schneider before Alpa came out with their HPF ring (when you turn the ring just few degree and focus was off). 

 

Anyway, thanks all for your help

 

 

[Photoworks]

are you focusing the WATE wide open and then closing down to exposure F-stop?

 

I don't recall having an issue with this lens on the SL2.

I would suggest a 7artison adapter that has a coil to focus closer, I use to set it to infinity in the viewfinder for faster operation.

The downside is that the WATE needs lots of in-camera correction that only the 6-bit coded adapter can give you. Or shoot a CLL plate for Capture one pro.

[Mak67]

I've try both wide open+stop down and stop down ... Both are hard to get the perfect focus (i mean lamost impossible)

The only way i found to get perfect focus was to set it to Infinity and then shoot every 2degree if rotation until 3m, and then only keep the best shot.

Then at f8 with my  best adapter (out of 3 tested) , i get : 

16mm : 1mm past 5m

18mm: 2mm past 5m

21mm: 1mm before infinity stop

But again, i'm very picky regarding perfect focus on 50mpx ... And this only works for infiny focus ... So i would have to make a distance grid, for all my working distance and all focal...

Bringing me back 10/15 years ago when i was using digital back+techcam ... A no go for me.

I've down sample images to 24mpx and it's much much easier to be happy with the result .

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[Photoworks]

so you are just using the distant scale on the lens to focus? not the viewfinder?

[Mak67]

As said before, i tried focusing with liveview wide open, and stop down, and from my point if view both option are impossible to get really sharp focus using liveview.

Perfect focus is obtain by about 1or 2 mm of rotation, but with live view you Can go up to 5mm of rotation and don't see any difference, resulting in Bad focused image on 50mpx.

The only way is to test your own setup (Lens+adapter+camera) and try to find the best focus position of the Lens for each focal and each distance... Works ! but too much works and potential trouble.

Again, my sample of the wate when perfectly focused is almost on part with my sl16-35@f8 ... But definitly far behind at f4 ... And that probably why it is so difficult to focus wide open, it is not sharp/contrast enough.... At the opposite the sl16-35 is really sharp and contrasted, and so focusing is really easy at F3.5(almost same as f4 regarding dof).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Mak67