Leica 180mm f2.8 APO vs Non-APO Version 2

[wolan]

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Hi,

I have being looking at hundreds of pictures  taken with both lenses and I cannot see a huge difference between the two. Both seem to me very sharp and and with excellent micro-contrast, even WO.

Is the APO version really worth the extra money?

Please share your view and pictures if you have some.

Thanks.

Edited April 12, 2023 by wolan

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[davidmknoble]

@wolan, the first question I would ask you is, what size and how are you comparing these pictures?  Are they printed or on a monitor?  In small sizes, you might not.  However, when looking at a full sized image, printed at a reasonable size, the APO lens is sharp to the corners, a full aperture.  Very fine details are high contrast, at full aperture.  I have the lens and also have the Leica R. APO 280 f/2.8 (not the 4.0), and the 180 APO 2.8 is one of the finest lenses Leica has developed.  It is like the difference between the Summicron M 50 f/2.0 and the ‘cron M APO 50 f/2.0.  The former is a very good lens, but images next to the APO 50 are not a crisp and clear.  The light draws better.  I’m on my ipad, but I’ll try to post some shots with this lens…

[dpitt]

+1 here. I have the 180 F2.8 non APO and APO 180 F3.4 + APO 280 F2.8
The APO 180 is best at infinity so differences close up will be visible but not as much as on further distance. The 280 is superior over the whole range.
 

Edited April 13, 2023 by dpitt

[davidmknoble]

1 hour ago, dpitt said:

+1 here. I have the 180 F2.8 non APO and APO 180 F3.4 + APO 280 F2.8
The APO 180 is best at infinity so differences close up will be visible but not as much as on further distance. The 280 is superior over the whole range.
 

I have the APO 280 2.8, and I think it is softer wide open than the APO 180 2.8.  However, the APO 280 f/4 - much more compact - is widely known as the best R and manual focus lens that Leica has made (I would certainly put it in the top 5).

@dpitt were you referring to the 280 2.8 or 4.0??

[dpitt]

5 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

I have the APO 280 2.8, and I think it is softer wide open than the APO 180 2.8.  However, the APO 280 f/4 - much more compact - is widely known as the best R and manual focus lens that Leica has made (I would certainly put it in the top 5).

@dpitt were you referring to the 280 2.8 or 4.0??

I was referring to the 280 F2.8. It is a bit softer wide open compared to the APO 180 F3.4 but the 280 'plays' more with light, a bit like the Summiluxes and Noctiluxes (50 and 75) do without the inherent distortion. I suppose the 280 F4 will be even better and also the 400 F4 modular, but those are in a different league (I never had the honor to compare them, just referring to the price).

[davidmknoble]

@dpitt agreed on how the 280 draws light!  I love it even thought it is big to haul around!

 

[Essummi]

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May be the Apo 3.4/180 is a good option. It is light (important for me), has a very good image quality and fits well with the sl apos. In a nutshell: apo is apo and crystal clear, non-apo also draws very nice but different 

 

[dpitt]

10 minutes ago, Essummi said:

May be the Apo 3.4/180 is a good option. It is light (important for me), has a very good image quality and fits well with the sl apos. In a nutshell: apo is apo and crystal clear, non-apo also draws very nice but different 

 

You are right. But some lenses did not make Leica's APO standard by a very narrow margin. I am thinking about the Macro 90 Elmar M and the 35-70 F4 R and 80-200 F4 R lenses. There must be others too, but I can see these are very close.

[R-ler]

I have the Elmarit R 180 II Version and the Apo Telyt R 3.4/180. I always use the Elmarit R 180 at apature 4.

The difference to Apo R 3.4/180 on slide film is small. But i like the handling of the Elmarit II much better.

If i could only keep one , it would be the Elmarit R 180.

 

[dpitt]

3 minutes ago, R-ler said:

I have the Elmarit R 180 II Version and the Apo Telyt R 3.4/180. I always use the Elmarit R 180 at apature 4.

The difference to Apo R 3.4/180 on slide film is small. But i like the handling of the Elmarit II much better.

If i could only keep one , it would be the Elmarit R 180.

 

I can see the appeal of the Elmarit. The Apo Telyt feels a bit cold and business like compared to other lenses. Also, I noticed it is really designed to shine at long distance shots. Using it closer than 10 m or so, the difference in resolution is less apparent. Using it for long distance landscapes, it even beats the APO Telyt F2.8 280 in resolution, which is really hard. I even tested it with APO extender 2x on against the Leica 500mm MR and the APO Telyt 280 with APO 1.4 converter. Subject was a church clock at 300m. The 360 mm with the APO Telyt 180 showed most detail of these 3 options while the others where 500mm and 400mm in FL.

[Essummi]

I have also both (the 2.8 since the eighties) and your assessment is right. But the 3.4 is the companion of the SL apos. I would not like to miss any.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Essummi

[dpitt]

It is a great compliment that you give to the 70s design of the APO Telyt 180 when you say you do not want to miss it when you have a contemporary SL APO option.

[Essummi]

Indeed, the 3.4 is very good lens. I just wanted to recommend Wolan a reasonable alternative for an even more reasonable used price. I am using the 2x Apo extender as well with the 3.4. Light and very effective. The SL apos are excellent, but not light.

[dpitt]

23 minutes ago, cbass said:

I can't speak about the others, but from my experience the 35-70 F4 is far from APO. 

Are you really referring to the 1997-2009 version of the 35-70 F4 R Vario Elmar ? And if so, why do you think that it is far from APO?