New Sigma 60-600mm L Mount - First Effort

[hdmesa]

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1 hour ago, Planetwide said:

Thanks for taking the time to post. Its seems as if the Sigma 60-600mm is sharper at the long end than the Sigma 150-600mm, even though the mtf suggests otherwise.

I’ve read early reviews saying the 60-600 wasn’t as sharp in the corners as the 150-600 when both were compared at 600mm, but mine is plenty sharp at 24mp, so maybe the difference is easier to see on the SL2, I don’t know. Or the early review copies of the 60-600 were not final.

I never look to MTFs except as a general guide since they are often not applicable to real world use. For example, the optical stabilization of the 60-600 is supposed to be better than the 150-600. AF is supposed to be better as well. Things like that can add up to produce better real world results.

When I get a chance in a few hours, I can post a few DNG files of shots taken at infinity. At least that way you can see what I’m getting with a monopod at f/8.

[drjonb]

8 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I’ve read early reviews saying the 60-600 wasn’t as sharp in the corners as the 150-600 when both were compared at 600mm, but mine is plenty sharp at 24mp, so maybe the difference is easier to see on the SL2, I don’t know. Or the early review copies of the 60-600 were not final.

I never look to MTFs except as a general guide since they are often not applicable to real world use. For example, the optical stabilization of the 60-600 is supposed to be better than the 150-600. AF is supposed to be better as well. Things like that can add up to produce better real world results.

When I get a chance in a few hours, I can post a few DNG files of shots taken at infinity. At least that way you can see what I’m getting with a monopod at f/8.

I have not used the Sigma 150-600 so cannot comment on its performance compared to the new 60-600.  I think your point on “real world use” is very important.  For example, regarding corner sharpness: even with 1.4x extender attached, I am often still cropping on the SL2-S due to the distance away of my wildlife targets, therefore, corner sharpness is not that relevant.  (I use my 24-90 if I do landscapes and need corner to corner sharpness.). The sharpness of the 60-600 in the centre is excellent from my perspective.

The single images so far of the moon I have captured are plenty sharp, so looks like the 60-600 performs very well at infinity even with AF.  With stacking a few moon images at dusk (handheld only so far), there is also plenty of detail.  I plan to take some videos at night of the moon (hundreds of images to stack not just a few) and will post in due course.

I tend to capture opportunistic shots of wildlife in good light, hence my preference for this long zoom range.  In real world use this 60-600 is performing beyond my expectations as regards AF, OIS and optical quality.  Aside from its weight which some may find prohibitive off-tripod, I would speculate that its biggest challenges would be sports arena photography and fast moving wildlife targets - with more practice I hope to prove myself wrong on the latter.  For the former, it often requires the big Nikon and Canón primes at f2.8 and f4…and the price and weight that comes with that..

In my real world, this lens is definitely a keeper!

[jaapv]

There is one consideration for wildlife photography. As the air heats up, heat distortion will soon overtake the quality of the lens at longer distance. In such conditions bushcraft gets to be of increasing importance   In the real world the lighter lens is the better one. Agility and focusing technique are more important than AF performance. I regularly switch to manual focus which in combination with prefocus often  gives better results. 

[drjonb]

15 minutes ago, jaapv said:

There is one consideration for wildlife photography. As the air heats up, heat distortion will soon overtake the quality of the lens at longer distance. In such conditions bushcraft gets to be of increasing importance   In the real world the lighter lens is the better one. Agility and focusing technique are more important than AF performance. I regularly switch to manual focus which in combination with prefocus often  gives better results. 

Completely agree on atmospherics; I got rid of all my Astro gear because seeing conditions in the UK are rarely conducive no matter how much money is spent on the telescope!  Terrestrial air currents (usually from heat) are a real issue with telephoto lenses after about 400mm, and for wildlife you cannot use ‘lucky imaging’ to get the shot.  If the target is relatively slow moving, I find manual focus (especially on tripod) is ok.  But if the targets are moving and opportunistic, tripod and manual focus never worked for me - in this case, I like to be hand-held, and have fast AF - any worthwhile shots I have got of sport and wildlife were got off tripod and with a lens-camera combo with fast and accurate AF.  Hence, why I used Nikon gear in the past.  It is only recently, with the SL2-S and the new Sigma 60-600 (never tried the 150-600) that I felt I had a combo to emulate my former Nikon kit.

[jaapv]

My technique with static subjects is to “walk” the focus on the ground or foliage near the animal when autofocus fails-no AF can focus precisely on fur- For fast moving subjects I use trap focus by choosing a spot where the animal will be and releasing as the animal enters the sharp zone. When I am lazy I use AF   

[drjonb]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

My technique with static subjects is to “walk” the focus on the ground or foliage near the animal when autofocus fails-no AF can focus precisely on fur- For fast moving subjects I use trap focus by choosing a spot where the animal will be and releasing as the animal enters the sharp zone. When I am lazy I use AF   

All good techniques, especially if the animals cooperate, unfortunately, I find they are too predictable, unless I am at the zoo!  I always target the eyes or the beak.  For sport, AF is a must except maybe for snooker, but ranging is always a help.

[drjonb]

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2 hours ago, jaapv said:

My technique with static subjects is to “walk” the focus on the ground or foliage near the animal when autofocus fails-no AF can focus precisely on fur- For fast moving subjects I use trap focus by choosing a spot where the animal will be and releasing as the animal enters the sharp zone. When I am lazy I use AF   

Not sure if I am allowed to post non-Leica images, but I just went back and reprocessed using Topaz some images from 20 odd years ago - shot with a Nikon D2X (12.4MB) and the Nikon 200-400 zoom - they are all heavily cropped.  No way to get these without AF!  This one is a Mig 29 overflying the first F1 race in Kuala Lumpur.

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[drjonb]

Mig 29 in formation.

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[drjonb]

Schumi in his prime.

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[drjonb]

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[wizard]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb drjonb:

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Wow, great shot of what must be a red kite. They are quite common where I live (southern Germany/Austria), and I watch them frequently with my binoculars.

[drjonb]

5 minutes ago, wizard said:

Wow, great shot of what must be a red kite. They are quite common where I live (southern Germany/Austria), and I watch them frequently with my binoculars.

Many thanks.  Yes, it is a Red Kite, I should have labelled it!  They are magnificent birds but not so common where I live, but usually fly over once a day looking for prey.

[bags27]

I'm just an interloper here, vaguely interested in the 150-600 which I'd put on my S1R that I otherwise use only for scanning film.

But when I was shooting digital, I used magnificent R telies on the CL that captured BIF with manual focus. And folks did it/do it all the time with film. Sure, we miss a lot, but we nail plenty, too. Ditto sports photographers (I recently shot a tennis tournament with my M4-P and 135 f/4 Mandler). It's not a new invention. 🙂

Edited May 3, 2023 by bags27

[drjonb]

1 hour ago, bags27 said:

I'm just an interloper here, vaguely interested in the 150-600 which I'd put on my S1R that I otherwise use only for scanning film.

But when I was shooting digital, I used magnificent R telies on the CL that captured BIF with manual focus. And folks did it/do it all the time with film. Sure, we miss a lot, but we nail plenty, too. Ditto sports photographers (I recently shot a tennis tournament with my M4-P and 135 f/4 Mandler). It's not a new invention. 🙂

I have never managed to capture a fast moving bird, animal, or action sports image using a manual focus camera, but that may be my lack of skill.  I used Leica M film cameras and got the M8 the minute it came out, and the reach of the telephotos available for those cameras was also limited.  But good luck and kudos if others have managed. If a bird or animal hovers, then I can see that it might be doable.  But my point is simply that in the spit second something happens in a sports arena, or an animal or bird appears in range, I do not understand how manual focusing is possible.

[jaapv]

Well, given that I have been shooting wildlife manually with long lenses from 1988 up to. 2014, with a short Canon AF interlude 2002-2008, I must have been hopelessly useless at the discipline...

[jaapv]

34 minutes ago, drjonb said:

and the reach of the telephotos available for those cameras was also limited

I shot my M8 up to 800 mm...

[BernardC]

37 minutes ago, drjonb said:

I have never managed to capture a fast moving bird, animal, or action sports image using a manual focus camera, but that may be my lack of skill.

Part of the problem may be that you used Nikon and Leica cameras. They focus in different directions, which makes it very difficult to acquire muscle memory. You will inevitably turn the focus ring in the wrong direction and miss your shot.

The other trick that works for me is to put the focus at infinity and start turning from there, so you are always starting from a known distance.

That's not to say that manual focus tracking is an essential skill in this day and age, but it's worth practicing if you feel the inclination. It makes you more aware of the focus plane, which can be beneficial to composition.

[drjonb]

15 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I shot my M8 up to 800 mm...

Well Done! As far as I recall, the M8 did not have in-body OIS or AF.  My point is that panning at an F1 event or air show, to capture a sharp (no-motion blur) image of a car or plane, was beyond my capability using a manual focus camera.  But probably not fruitful to pursue this discussion further.

[drjonb]

7 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Part of the problem may be that you used Nikon and Leica cameras. They focus in different directions, which makes it very difficult to acquire muscle memory. You will inevitably turn the focus ring in the wrong direction and miss your shot.

The other trick that works for me is to put the focus at infinity and start turning from there, so you are always starting from a known distance.

That's not to say that manual focus tracking is an essential skill in this day and age, but it's worth practicing if you feel the inclination. It makes you more aware of the focus plane, which can be beneficial to composition.

Interesting point, thanks.  Except that I never attempted to manually focus with my Nikon kit, there was no need to do it given the capability of the Nikon equipment and what I was trying to shoot.  Of course, ranging the focus with AF is possible and I always used this technique.  

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[jaapv]

10 minutes ago, drjonb said:

Well Done! As far as I recall, the M8 did not have in-body OIS or AF.  My point is that panning at an F1 event or air show, to capture a sharp (no-motion blur) image of a car or plane, was beyond my capability using a manual focus camera.  But probably not fruitful to pursue this discussion further.

An airshow is easier than a bird, the flight path tends to be less erratic.