Ideas for Leica Q3

[Farrell Gallery]

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I'm out shooting with my Q2---today. I'm not even concerned about something that's not out yet. 

[clasami]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Olaf_ZG:

My only complaint about the buttons are that the sl2, q2 and m10 are not aligned. 
 

if play is up, it should be everywhere up. Menu should be down everywhere as well, fn or lv in the middle.

@op: your wish will turn the q into a fuji, no thanks.

Into a Fuji??? And all of my wishes lead to Fuji???? Even if no button is added at all 🙂 What sounds a lot more like Fuji is having different functions assigned to the buttons on different bodies.

Edited March 31, 2023 by clasami

[clasami]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Le Chef:

The business of developing UI's becomes more important as we move forward with increasingly complex systems, particularly with voice controls and AI. Consistency across products is really important for manufacturers if they want customers to trade up. 

Mercedes many years ago learned that if they introduced a new "Baby Benz" with the 190, that the controls had to follow the pattern established by the larger car. Their view was both ease of trading up, but in the process discovered that older customers wanted to trade down to a smaller car that was "still a Mercedes Benz".

That "trading down" to a smaller model is something Leica needs to remember, particularly with the demise of the CL and the "cheapest" model being close to $6.000.

There is anothe reason - cost. Not only Mercedes, but Volkswagen, AUDI, you name it, all discovered that you can use the same basic parts to manufacture a Polo and a Passat. 

There is nothing to be said against keeping controls easy and alligned. But there is also good reason to design the control layout so that it supports the use of a product.

It seems that Oskar Barnack left in his last will that there need to be three control buttons on the left - no more, no less. Who am I to go against his last wish 🙂 That still doesn't explain why no changes in firmware. Small ones, helpful ones. Oh, just found it in Oskars will, page two: You shall not change the firmware, either 🙂

[clasami]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Mikep996:

My preference for the Q3 would be: Q2 with 60MP sensor, NO changes to controls/ergonomics/lens.  

 A 60 MP sensor would make 75mm crop even more usable - I agree. It would also put the camera into a price bracket that I can't justify for a hobby. Much like Sony's a7rV.

[clasami]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Farrell Gallery:

I'm out shooting with my Q2---today. I'm not even concerned about something that's not out yet. 

Brilliant, I envy you 🙂 When I am out shooting, and back home, I do find time to think about what I like and don't like about the camera I am using. May be I should see a doctor 🙂 . I know that Le Chef has a very different approach to what a Leica should be like. But I do enjoy the discussion with him. It even inspired me to change my wish from adding a button (sacrilege) to implementing it in software.

Listening to others and learning is what a forum like this is all about. 

[mikeLD]

21 hours ago, clasami said:

There are some small things that would improve operation of the Q2:

1. Place the "Play" button next to the "Zoom" button. That'll put it within reach of the thumb for quick and easy replay.
2. Alternatively, make "Play" assignable to the "Zoom" button, and "Zoom" to the "Play" button.
3. Add a magnified view option to the zoom mode.
4. Pressing and holding "Zoom" button should reset zoom - so one doesn't have cycle through 28/25/50/75.
5. Ad an AEL Spot Hold /Toggel option.
6. The dial on the upper right corner is partially coverd (likely to prevent inadvertent activation). Remove that "edge" of the cover plate to make dial more accessible.

That's all. Anybody else has anything to add (or subtract)?

These are great suggestions.  On your item 3, there is a magnified view option in zoom mode, which when enabled displays a zoomed view of the shot until the shutter button released.  I don't remember which setting it is, but I leave it set all the time because it allows a zoomed shot to be post viewed immediately and makes getting another shot, possibly reframed, quickly.  If you cannot find the setting let me know and I will search for it? 

Sidenote: This works very well for me because as a street shooter, I subscribe to the decisive moment ideas of Henri Cartier Bresson, and this gives me a quick second chance to amend my shot.

Edited March 31, 2023 by mikeLD
Add a sidenote why I like live post viewing zooms

[clasami]

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb mikeLD:

These are great suggestions.  On your item 3, there is a magnified view option in zoom mode, which when enabled displays a zoomed view of the shot until the shutter button released.  I don't remember which setting it is, but I leave it set all the time because it allows a zoomed shot to be post viewed immediately and makes getting another shot, possibly reframed, quickly.  If you cannot find the setting let me know and I will search for it?

Thank you. I guess item #3 is a bit misleading. What I would like to see is an option to not only see a wire frame for the crops, but to see 100% of the cropped image. Would be particularly helpful when using the 75mm crop. The two different magnification settings for MF I know about.

[Le Chef]

On the topic of buttons here's the alignment across four models:

Top = Play (CL, M11, Q2, SL2)

Middle = FN (CL, M11, Q2, SL2)

Bottom = Menu (CL, M11, Q2, SL2)

So there is consistency across the range and the core of the FW seems to be consistent across all models. What differs are certain features that are added or missing: e.g. perspective control on M11 but obviously no autofocus settings.

You have to believe features will cascade down from most expensive (most sophisticated sensors etc. down to the least expensive over time as the technology costs get amortized and cheaper.

I own a CL and when I acquired a Q2 the setup took 10 minutes as the UI was almost identical. To me that's an important reason to keep preferring Leica.

[Le Chef]

41 minutes ago, clasami said:

Thank you. I guess item #3 is a bit misleading. What I would like to see is an option to not only see a wire frame for the crops, but to see 100% of the cropped image. Would be particularly helpful when using the 75mm crop. The two different magnification settings for MF I know about.

This would be helpful. I suspect a combination of M-centric thinking around the frames and also a lack of processing power to show you the magnification you would like to see as an alternative view to that.

[Le Chef]

54 minutes ago, mikeLD said:

I subscribe to the decisive moment ideas of Henri Cartier Bresson, and this gives me a quick second chance to amend my shot.

I don't look, so save time to keep shooting. I prefer to look through multiple shots in post than spend time looking at screens etc. when I could be taking the next shot or the next subject.

[clasami]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Le Chef:

On the topic of buttons here's the alignment across four models:

Top = Play (CL, M11, Q2, SL2)

Middle = FN (CL, M11, Q2, SL2)

Bottom = Menu (CL, M11, Q2, SL2)

So there is consistency across the range and the core of the FW seems to be consistent across all models. What differs are certain features that are added or missing: e.g. perspective control on M11 but obviously no autofocus settings.

You have to believe features will cascade down from most expensive (most sophisticated sensors etc. down to the least expensive over time as the technology costs get amortized and cheaper.

I own a CL and when I acquired a Q2 the setup took 10 minutes as the UI was almost identical. To me that's an important reason to keep preferring Leica.

That is laudable. Fuji, in contrast, has the button assignment all over the place. That makes it not impossible, but unpleasant to work with an X-E3 and an X-E4 at the same time.

[Le Chef]

And that’s really the point. Whether you want to upgrade or add another body, the Leica approach makes it easier for you. Apart from having to sell a kidney to pay for it, that is!

[Olaf_ZG]

3 hours ago, Le Chef said:

On the topic of buttons here's the alignment across four models:

Top = Play (CL, M11, Q2, SL2)

Middle = FN (CL, M11, Q2, SL2)

Bottom = Menu (CL, M11, Q2, SL2)

So there is consistency across the range and the core of the FW seems to be consistent across all models.

Envy the buttons of the m11, as the m10m has play in the middle… maybe leica could still give a firmware update…

[SirBlunder]

21 hours ago, Mikep996 said:

My preference for the Q3 would be: Q2 with 60MP sensor, NO changes to controls/ergonomics/lens.  

I'm curious: Why 60mp? I know that "more is more" and that the only real downside is file size (and maybe even worse buffering issues) but I find 47mp (~90mb files) to already be burdensome AND more than enough even with serious cropping. I also acknowledge that, for years, people have been saying "Geez, X mp is plenty, why would you ever need more?" but, at some point, IMO, added resolution stops being a real factor. 

If I had ONE upgrade to make for my Q2 it would be, by far, better autofocus. Second might be a USB-C charging port while maintaining the same level of water/dust-proofing. And third might be the ability to do compressed raw files (though maybe one day that can be implemented into the Q2 via software upgrade?). 

[Mikep996]

I said 60 simply because that seems to be the "next big thing" sensor wise that is already available for Leica.  I don't really see anything that I would want changed in the current Q2, INCLUDING the MP count.  I don't want more buttons or menu additions or a different lens so the only thing that MIGHT interest me is larger MP for even greater cropping ability.  OTOH I have to admit that I haven't felt the need for more MP!  But heck, I bought new film cameras quite often and they all - from oldest to newest- used the same "sensor"!  

[Daniel C.1975]

If a 60MP sensor comes, I would like to see a ‚clever pixel binning mode‘.

Meaning, for me ~24mp is most of the time absolutely sufficient, but I also like using the crop modes.

The function I would like to see is

- when pixel-binning is enabled, let‘s say to 24mp or so, I have 24mp when using 28mm.

- however, when using the crop mode, the camera chooses automatically the next higher possible binning set-up of the sensor to ensure in all crop modes a resolution as close to the 24mp as possible

- What would not be helpful at all, is, that if using the pixel-binning mode and using the crop button, that the resolution would drop accordingly down from the 24mp

 

With such a setup, a) the pixel-binning would be perfectly implemented with the effect that b) the crop-mode would really have a function and would be a more conscious decision - when being in pixel-binning mode. If you are in normal resolution you would still have the same set-up as with the Q2, where, in DNG, the crop mode is more a support to frame, but otherwise you‘ll still have the flexibility to crop to gusto in PP.

That would be nice. 
 

Plus, and I know that‘s controversial, a very well implemented flip screen would be nice. From my point of view a just simple one-way flip-out, only for horizontal low-level use would be good enough. Keep it simple and sturdy. 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Daniel C.1975

[LocalHero1953]

Little point in 60mp over 47mp, unless 60mp is just an easier and cheaper sensor for Leica to source. In resolution terms the difference is small.

I don't use the crop modes for framing, but rather for controlling the area of AF and AE. I do all my cropping in Lightroom - the final crops rarely match the original in-camera crop.

As for a quick preview, I have auto preview set to off, but preview, if needed, just by continuing to hold the shutter button down. I don't have the Q2 to hand and can't remember the exact setting.

Edited April 1, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Chris W]

There is no need for a Q3, except every tech company feels the need to follow Apple's successful example of launching new versions every second or third year then discontinuing support for the older versions a few years down the track. It keeps people spending.

On the 'buttons' - the absolute beauty of Leica is the simplicity. The fewer buttons the better for me. I have L mount lenses and I wouldn't dream of buying the S1 or S5, they are just a confusion of buttons and joysticks.

On the price - I actually think the retail price on new Leicas is aimed at hobbyists. Professional photographers are often operating on lower incomes and have to justify every dollar they spend on their gear. If you are up and coming as a pro photographer, you are probably going to be buying a 5 to 10 year old Leica system, or nothing Leica at all.

The only Q3 thing I hope for is a base 35mm lens, instead of the (wider) 28mm. 

[cirke]

7.  A 35mm 

Edited April 1, 2023 by cirke

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[clasami]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Chris W:

There is no need for a Q3, except every tech company feels the need to follow Apple's successful example of launching new versions every second or third year then discontinuing support for the older versions a few years down the track. It keeps people spending.

On the 'buttons' - the absolute beauty of Leica is the simplicity. The fewer buttons the better for me. I have L mount lenses and I wouldn't dream of buying the S1 or S5, they are just a confusion of buttons and joysticks.

On the price - I actually think the retail price on new Leicas is aimed at hobbyists. Professional photographers are often operating on lower incomes and have to justify every dollar they spend on their gear. If you are up and coming as a pro photographer, you are probably going to be buying a 5 to 10 year old Leica system, or nothing Leica at all.

The only Q3 thing I hope for is a base 35mm lens, instead of the (wider) 28mm. 

"Beautiful moment! Do not pass away" Goethe, Faust I 🙂
Technology evolves and so do cameras. There is no "frozen in time".
As reagarads "buttons" My Q2 has as many buttons as some of my Fujis or Sonys.
They layout design of the Q2 is just more "Bauhaus". Though if you look at a Fuji X-E3 for example,
you will find three buttons in a row like on the Q2 - but on the right, not the left side.  

Edited April 1, 2023 by clasami