wilfredo Posted November 7, 2007 Share #1 Posted November 7, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) The frame lines are really off on my M8. I wonder how this would have affected HCB? Should I send my camera to New Jersey for repair? Cheers, Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Hi wilfredo, Take a look here Frame Lines. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
carstenw Posted November 7, 2007 Share #2 Posted November 7, 2007 If they are off like this, it is normal, so it would make no difference: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/31212-frameline-accuracy-comparison.html Leica is rumoured to be working on an alternate frameline set which is set to 1m, and would thus be closer at most distances, especially far. I imagine that they would charge for this, but I will certainly get it done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted November 7, 2007 Thanks Carsten. These look pretty much like what I am getting. I guess I need to be mindful when shooting, sometimes I forget to compensate for the difference. Wilfredo ww.BenitezRivera.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walt Posted November 7, 2007 Share #4 Posted November 7, 2007 I use auxilliary finders (mostly the Voiglander metal, round ones) for all lenses on the M8, all the time. They are quite accurate (e.g. a 35 finder for the 28 lens). A pity a camera like this requires this, but the finders are absolutely necessary to me. I do not want to "imagine" the edges, I want to see them. Walt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent10D Posted November 7, 2007 Share #5 Posted November 7, 2007 I use auxilliary finders (mostly the Voiglander metal, round ones) for all lenses on the M8, all the time. They are quite accurate (e.g. a 35 finder for the 28 lens). A pity a camera like this requires this, but the finders are absolutely necessary to me. I do not want to "imagine" the edges, I want to see them. Walt, I have tried using external finders but just can't learn to like them because you have to look through the regular finder to check exposure anyway, resulting in much going back and forth. How do you deal with exposure? Do you set your aperture and then let the camera choose any old shutter speed it likes, or do you ignore the built-in meter altogether? I generally like to keep an eye on shutter speed, so I'm interested in how you handle this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 7, 2007 Share #6 Posted November 7, 2007 The frame lines are really off on my M8. I wonder how this would have affected HCB? They weren't accurate in HCB's cameras either but they were a little more accurate (than those in the M8) because they weren't set for a .7 meter focus distance. Actually, the 90 mm lines in the M8 are set for one meter. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 7, 2007 Share #7 Posted November 7, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) They weren't accurate in HCB's cameras either but they were a little more accurate (than those in the M8) because they weren't set for a .7 meter focus distance. I think the difference is more significant than you suggest and goes beyond the frames being simply too tight. Both my M8s (bought six months apart so I doubt it's a 'batch' issue) are also noticeably inaccurate in that the extra image area captured is not consistent around each of the four framelines. There is more 'extra' image on one side than the opposite side. I've grown used to this inaccuracy but have spent far too much time during the last 12 months chimping the edges of the frame. Incidentally, I was recently at a talk by a UK Magnum photographer (an M user for 40-50 years) and, for some odd reason, he got on to discuss using the M8. He said that he persevered for a few months with the M8 but had to give it up because he just couldn't get on with the inaccuracy of the framelines compared to what he had been used to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 7, 2007 Share #8 Posted November 7, 2007 Out of curiousity, who was that photographer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted November 7, 2007 Share #9 Posted November 7, 2007 They weren't accurate in HCB's cameras either but they were a little more accurate (than those in the M8) because they weren't set for a .7 meter focus distance. Actually, the 90 mm lines in the M8 are set for one meter. Cheers, I second what Sean said and would add that HCB made heavy use of an external VIDOM viefinder, which is more accurate than the framelines in any M body. The VIDOM has two setting for the 50mm; infinity and 1 meter and is extremely accurate. If the reversed image is a problem you can use a VIOOH, which is just as accurate, but a little more delicate and stands higher on the camera body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted November 7, 2007 Share #10 Posted November 7, 2007 Out of curiousity, who was that photographer? Thomas Hoepker? I seem to remember reading an interview with him about the M8. I think that and the IR issue (pre-filter solution days) were the main reasons why he went back to shooting with his 5D. Apparently he's not the only high-end shooter one who has complained loudly about this to Leica. Lets hope that the company listens. Personally I find it a very annoying 'feature'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fursan Posted November 7, 2007 Share #11 Posted November 7, 2007 don't mean to be cynical..but would a 2mm hex help? just thinking out:confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 7, 2007 Share #12 Posted November 7, 2007 Out of curiousity, who was that photographer? David Hurn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 7, 2007 Share #13 Posted November 7, 2007 don't mean to be cynical..but would a 2mm hex help? just thinking out:confused: No. The issue has nothing to do with focussing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philinflash Posted November 7, 2007 Share #14 Posted November 7, 2007 This is a question for you Leica historians out there. When were "automatic" framelines introduced to the M line? I believe some of HCB's best work was done before then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted November 7, 2007 Share #15 Posted November 7, 2007 The frame lines are really off on my M8. I wonder how this would have affected HCB? Why would you expect HCB to have given a rat's arse about your camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted November 7, 2007 Share #16 Posted November 7, 2007 Why would you expect HCB to have given a rat's arse about your camera? I don't think he was being serious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 7, 2007 Share #17 Posted November 7, 2007 Why would you expect HCB to have given a rat's arse about your camera? I think you misunderstood the question, Vinay. He was referring to HCB's style, which used accurate framing and speculated on the opinion this icon would have had about the M8's framing in general.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 7, 2007 Share #18 Posted November 7, 2007 Why would you expect HCB to have given a rat's arse about your camera? Vinay, any person with a shred of common sense would have realised that Wilfredo was asking how HCB would have coped with similar frame lines in _his_ camera not Wilfredo's. Have you considered therapy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walt Posted November 7, 2007 Share #19 Posted November 7, 2007 Walt, I have tried using external finders but just can't learn to like them because you have to look through the regular finder to check exposure anyway, resulting in much going back and forth. How do you deal with exposure? Do you set your aperture and then let the camera choose any old shutter speed it likes, or do you ignore the built-in meter altogether? I generally like to keep an eye on shutter speed, so I'm interested in how you handle this. Kent- If I'm shooting quickly, I just let the camera find a shutter speed in aperture priority--or, I just look through the Leica finder if I also need to focus and don't have time to move to the "good" finder. When I have a bit more time, I may set exposure and focus and then go to the external finder. You get used to going back and forth and you always have an accurate finder at hand if you want it. If the shutter speed gets low while you are using the hot shoe finder, you can hear that. The other issue with the built-in lines is that most of the lower edge is missing--even when it is not necessary to clear the finder readout, as with the 35mm edges. Thus you not only lose this most important edge in the frame, but it is harder to keep the camera level. While others soft pedal this bad finder design in the M8, I think this is an unforgivable failure in the camera. The whole point of a Leica is the finder. Walt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share #20 Posted November 7, 2007 Steve, That's exactly my point! Any fan of HCB knows that he composed his pictures using his viewfinder and never cropped his images. I often have to crop during post processing with the M8. I suspect that with the M8 even HCB might have to consider cropping here and there, a monumental sin in his style of photography. I can live with cropping but I do find the inaccurate viewfinder annoying, almost as annoying as idiotic comments on this forum. Cheers, Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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