Leica and the Foveon Sensor

[Ssssnake529]

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I am surprised that the folks at Leica have not put a Sigma foveon sensor in a Leica digital camera.  

I understand that the sensor depth creates some technical challenges for M mount lenses.  However, between the Japanese and German optics and engineering expertise at Sigma and Leica, I have no doubt that some solution is possible.  

Leica users are happy to use a quirky, compromised, and somewhat anachronistic camera for the "Leica experience" and digital files with the "Leica look."   The Sigma DP Merrill cameras are similarly quirky and functionally limited compared with contemporary cameras.  However, the Merrill cameras have a cult-like following because of the "Foveon look."    Both Sigma and Leica cultists are willing to forego modern "advances" in pursuit of a difficult to describe "look."  

As a long time user of the Sigma DP Merrill cameras and a relatively new user of Leica cameras, I see a lot in common between the Leica and Foveon "looks." 

I would love to see a Leica M camera with a full frame Foveon sensor.   Make a stripped down Leica M13 rangefinder.  Give it a full frame Foveon sensor, IBIS to help compensate for the Foveon's poor high-ISO performance.  Weather sealed.  Simple controls.  The bare minimum of buttons.  

No extraneous fluff.  No GPS, no digital zoom, no video, no bluetooth.  Nothing but the basics.  A small form factor instrument for bringing M-mount glass, the rangefinder shooting experience, and the Foveon sensor together.  A luddite camera laser focused on image quality and that hard to define "look" of the files.    

It sounds like a niche product, but for me, this would be the ultimate evolution of the Leica digital camera.     

 

 

 

 

 

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[Chris W]

Part of the Merrill look could be the superb lenses too.

I zoomed in on my DP2 and DP3 raw images and they are tack sharp down to millimetres.

I think Leica are moving away from compromised cameras with the M10R and M11. There really is no compromise in the latest Q and SL lines.

The DP Merrill's were severely compromised with colour shift and banding at relatively low ISO.

I mean I would probably buy another Sigma Foveon camera, but I wouldn't pay $5000 plus for a Leica Foveon.

[oldwino]

The Foveon is technically challenging. It requires a lot of on-board processing power, battery power, and it doesn't really do well at ISO's over 400 (some would say 100). It is very niche, and Leica is already niche. 

Let Sigma make Foveon cameras.

[frame-it]

On 3/23/2023 at 2:04 PM, Ssssnake529 said:

Leica users are happy to use a quirky, compromised, and somewhat anachronistic camera for the "Leica experience"

yeah right ;), if you see the M threads so many are using their M's in A mode, Auto-WB and auto ISO 🤣 🤣

nobody can define the "leica look" > almost any lens will give a 3d pop effect between f1.4-f4 depending on the distance between the lens and the target with the background much further away.

Edited April 5, 2023 by frame-it

[adan]

Just for the record, a full-frame Foveon sensor has never existed, and still does not. One can get Sigma cameras with FF sensors, but they are not Foveon technology (they are from Sony or Panasonic or elsewhere).

APS-C is not appropriate for an M (Leica quit using cropped sensors in the M in 2009 - thankfully!). Nor apparently for any other Leica, since Leica has dropped the CL and TL camera lines.

Which is why I have never been surprised that Leica has avoided this somewhat interesting, but still basically challenged, technology. 

Even for Sigma cameras, the projected arrival of a FF Foveon has been pushed back to next year at the earliest (if Sigma is lucky, per their own words).

https://ymcinema.com/2023/02/27/sigma-struggles-with-the-development-of-the-full-frame-foveon-sensor/

[jaapv]

On 3/23/2023 at 6:04 AM, Ssssnake529 said:

I would love to see a Leica M camera with a full frame Foveon sensor. 

I'm sure that Sigma would like to see a full-frame Foveon sensor as well after these many years  of development in vain.

[jaapv]

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On 4/5/2023 at 12:15 AM, oldwino said:

The Foveon is technically challenging. It requires a lot of on-board processing power, battery power, and it doesn't really do well at ISO's over 400 (some would say 100). It is very niche, and Leica is already niche. 

Let Sigma make Foveon cameras.

Not only that, but the three-layered design makes for a narrow acceptance angle of the sensor, which is the opposite of the sensor type needed for an M camera. It is highly unlikely that M lenses will ever work properly on Foveon sensors.

[lx1713]

I wouldn't mind a strictly ISO 100 or 50 Foveon sensor for commercial studio work but I didn't realise it's a APSC sensor only. Studio LEDs and flashes would take care of ISO limitations. 

[helged]

"...will never give up..." on Foveon FF sensor 👍:  https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/sigma-will-never-give-up-on-the-foveon-sensor-says-ceo

Edited July 6, 2023 by helged

[LocalHero1953]

A full frame Foveon sensor and practical nuclear fusion power have a lot in common: both always a decade away.