A Specific Question About Laptop Monitors

[sean_reid]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Sean, just have your student nephew/neice order the computer to get the educ discount. I believe you get 10% -- and that's it for Apple.

 

I bot a used G4 but an mow buying my mac's new. Suggest the same......

 

Enjoy.

 

I'll check that out too. Thanks,

 

S

[ptomsu]

It's time for me to get a new laptop and I've been disappointed to discover that the current models I've looked at so far have all shown somewhat soft screen displays. So, for example, photographs on screen look as if they'd received extra (and unneeded) anti-aliasing. I realize this look seems to be all the rage in fonts, etc. but has anyone encountered a current laptop maker that uses a very good video card and a *sharp* display? It seems like every display I see is anti-aliasing everything it displays. I know its possible to have a sharp screen because one of our older computers is a Dell Inspiron 8000 and it has a very sharp monitor.

 

I'm looking at Windows but would consider Mac. But *please* lets not have this turn into another PC vs. Mac debate. I searched the forum archives and it seems like every laptop thread turned into a PC vs. Mac debate.

 

The rest of the specs I can decided by numbers but I'd love a lead on companies that are putting high quality monitors in laptops (to the extent such is possible). Toshiba is a good maker but I haven't been impressed with their screens.

 

Many thanks, in advance, for any advice.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

If you want to stay with PC, then Sony might be the best solution. My son and several people I know have Sony Vaio's and they are pretty good machines and in most cases have excellen displays.

 

If you like the top of the range laptop then you should go for a MacBook Pro. The 15" are pretty good, but better is the 17" and then take the highest resolution version. I operate this machine and it is just wonderful.

 

But note that there will be always better quality from a separate monitor - I am using an Apple Cinema Display 23" and the quality is much better - brighter, better contrast, more reliable colors.

[c6gowin]

All of the new 15" MacBook Pro models (Santa Rosa chipset - 800 Mhz frontside bus) have the LED backlight screen. The base model is 2.2 Ghz and you can now configure it with up to a 2.6 Ghz Core 2 Dual processor.

 

I struggled with choosing between the glossy and matte screens. I strongly urge you to take a close look at both screens side by side with the same photo displayed on both. That is how I made my decision - glossy. In my opinion the glossy screen seemed to have more vibrance or depth (not sure the best way to describe it). I also thought the glossy screen appeared more sharp, but that could have been an illusion due to the increase vibrance.

[Guest malland]

...In my opinion the glossy screen seemed to have more vibrance or depth (not sure the best way to describe it). I also thought the glossy screen appeared more sharp, but that could have been an illusion due to the increase vibrance.

While the glossy screen definitely has more vibrance, when calibrating it and trying to match what a print would be I feel one does better with a matte screen, not to speak of reflections and fingerprints that are much more disturbing on a glossy screen. I would get a glossy screen only if my final output medium was the screen rather than a print.

 

—Mitch/Paris

Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland

[c6gowin]

Fortunately, Apple was smart enough to give users a choice between matte or glossy. Mitch makes a good point about choosing a screen to more closely match print output. I didn't buy the MPB with intentions of using it for editing and printing. However, the more I use it the more I realize I could probably get away with it because the MBP has the processing power and will drive a large external monitor. Given the fact that I prefer matte papers I may have been better off with a matte screen, but I still prefer the glossy screen for my intended purpose.

[sean_reid]

If you want to stay with PC, then Sony might be the best solution. My son and several people I know have Sony Vaio's and they are pretty good machines and in most cases have excellen displays.

 

If you like the top of the range laptop then you should go for a MacBook Pro. The 15" are pretty good, but better is the 17" and then take the highest resolution version. I operate this machine and it is just wonderful.

 

But note that there will be always better quality from a separate monitor - I am using an Apple Cinema Display 23" and the quality is much better - brighter, better contrast, more reliable colors.

 

Thank you Peter. The new laptop is not designed to replace my main editing computers, just to be the best possible portable machine.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[marknorton]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

For "field" use, I use a Sony SZ, 13" screen, dual processor and dual video cards which allow you to trade quality for battery life. Excellent screen, calibrated using an eye-one.

 

In some situations, I've used it to remote control and upload pictures from my D2X using a wireless connection - surprising range from the D2X with the optional antenna.

 

The Sony has an accelerometer to detect when it's falling and will park the hard drive before it hits, Mine fell off the car roof onto soft ground - the hard drive was fine.

[sean_reid]

Mark,

 

That sounds like a nice feature on the Sony.

 

---------------

 

I stopped by an Apple store tonight on my way home to VT. I was really impressed with the first Macbook Pro I looked at, only to discover that it was actually the 17" with the 1920 x 1200 res. option. The screens on the 15s looked quite good but I must say that the 17" was definitely the monitor that most grabbed my attention. Still thinking, also need to look at the Sonys. Its interesting that the Sony 17" (1920 x 1200) uses exactly the same video card as the Mac (albeit with less video RAM).

 

Thanks all for the input,

 

Sean

[DaveSee]

Mark,

 

That sounds like a nice feature on the Sony.

 

---------------

 

I stopped by an Apple store tonight on my way home to VT. I was really impressed with the first Macbook Pro I looked at, only to discover that it was actually the 17" with the 1920 x 1200 res. option. The screens on the 15s looked quite good but I must say that the 17" was definitely the monitor that most grabbed my attention. Still thinking, also need to look at the Sonys. Its interesting that the Sony 17" (1920 x 1200) uses exactly the same video card as the Mac (albeit with less video RAM).

 

Thanks all for the input,

 

Sean

Many vendors have a HDD "park when the going gets rough" feature... yet amongst us techs, the larger issue is with those who "suspend" their portable, and then head out on their motorcycle NB-HDD parking features are meant for one-time, "accidental" bumps... most "suspended" portables do not park the HDD mechanism, so please shutdown your portable before moving distances greater than 50 meters, or heading off on your bike!

 

Sean, be careful... it starts with the 15-to-17 "Wow!", and then it becomes clad in a Pelican/Storm case... and thus, you're carrying double the weight Also, video RAM really comes into play with games and DVD/video... suggest carrying a few JPEGs on a USB "stick" to sample what your still images present to various systems(if you do not already do this). HDDs need not be large and fastest, nor needs for burning DVDs... 3-5 day warranty repair has always been tops of feature lists for me.

 

Sonys are well received... and there are 'net sources to describe swapping out Dell screens on Apples for better imaging. Yes, this is more than most would do, but to keep it fast, light and visably keen... portable?

 

rgds,

Dave

[Michael-IIIf]

I'm typing this on my new 15" MacBook Pro. Thoughts so far after a week's usage:-

 

1. It's heavier than I expected, and a good bit bigger than the PowerBook Ti it replaces.

 

2. Battery life - excellent.

 

3. Cooling - excellent, you can use it for hours at a time on your lap without burning delicate parts

 

4. Back-lit keyboard is worth its weight in gold. What a fabulous feature.

 

5. Screen - very impressive. The first thing I did was calibrate it with One-Eye and I'm very impressed with it's consistency across the full width even when displaying one solid colour. I love the way you can set it to adjust for ambient lighting conditions. Very useful. I agonised over glossy or matt but opted for matt as it is more useable in a variety of conditions - and laptops are bound to be used in less than ideal conditions.

 

6. I'm impressed with Leopard - they've improved the networking immensely and all apps seem to respond quicker. (That not just caused by the new processor because I've also installed on my old G5 and it's equally impressive).

 

7. I bought it with educational discount - my other half is a teacher - check out the criteria, Apple's definition is quite liberal.

 

The screen is so good, and the laptop in general is so responsive, that I've started using it in preference to my G5 and now I'm wondering could I do away with the desktop and live with Network Attached Storage instead.

 

 

Go for it.

[Guest Olof]

I am satisfied with the 15" MacBook Pro with a glossy display and LED display background light.

[sean_reid]

Many vendors have a HDD "park when the going gets rough" feature... yet amongst us techs, the larger issue is with those who "suspend" their portable, and then head out on their motorcycle NB-HDD parking features are meant for one-time, "accidental" bumps... most "suspended" portables do not park the HDD mechanism, so please shutdown your portable before moving distances greater than 50 meters, or heading off on your bike!

 

Sean, be careful... it starts with the 15-to-17 "Wow!", and then it becomes clad in a Pelican/Storm case... and thus, you're carrying double the weight Also, video RAM really comes into play with games and DVD/video... suggest carrying a few JPEGs on a USB "stick" to sample what your still images present to various systems(if you do not already do this). HDDs need not be large and fastest, nor needs for burning DVDs... 3-5 day warranty repair has always been tops of feature lists for me.

 

Sonys are well received... and there are 'net sources to describe swapping out Dell screens on Apples for better imaging. Yes, this is more than most would do, but to keep it fast, light and visably keen... portable?

 

rgds,

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

I never transport a laptop without turning it off entirely; thanks for the reminder. I do bring sample pictures with me for testing. What impressed me with the 17" was not the size but the resolution.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Sean

 

You can turn off the "anti-aliasing" effect on Mac screens if you wish.

 

Might be worth having a look if you can get to a dealer.

 

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for this tip. It's been interesting to become familiar with the world of Macs again. I used Macs until about 1994 but then needed to switch for business (database, etc.) reasons (I was still doing my photography work in the darkroom until about 2000 - 2001). Since Apple calls this AA effect "smoothing", I'll use that term. I found that the Macs would let me specify the smoothing strength (light, strong, auto, etc.) but that it could only be switched off with 12 pt (maximum) and smaller text.

 

As I looked at various Macs, desktop and laptop, just to get the lay of the land, I came to realize that this text smoothing seemed endemic to the platform. Reading my own site, for example, text was smoothed whether I was using Firefox or Safari. This, New Page 1, is what I'm used to seeing on screen.

 

To my eyes, this text smoothing interferes with legibility far more than does the choice to use a Serif or Sans Serif font. The old wives tale is that Serif fonts are easier to read but a recent overview of studies seems to suggest that this is largely myth (http://www.alexpoole.info/academic/literaturereview.html), especially on-screen.

 

To get a feel for things, I looked at both my own site and at dpreview.com, on various monitors. The latter site uses a small enough font that the "12 pt and under no smoothing" setting worked for it. But the Mac text smoothing interfered with the readability of my own site as well as that of various other sites on the web I looked at. I guess some people have just gotten used to this smoothing (and the way it, in effect, decreases kerning and leading in text) just as they have gotten used to the way many digital cameras present smoothed files.

 

I don't care for smoothing, myself, either in picture files or in text. In the former it obscures detail, in the latter it, for me, harms readability (not just for my own site but also for many of the sites I looked at). Again, I think some people must now be so used to it that they scarcely notice it; if they notice it at all.

 

So, I was disappointed that I could not seem to get "non-smoothed" text on the Macs. Someone in the know may now post and tell me that this is well-known, part of an old debate among typographers and graphic designers, etc. but it was news to me.

 

The other conclusion I'm coming too is that laptop, and flat panel, monitors need much higher resolution than CRT displays to show the level of detail I want to see on a screen. I know that was true in the past but didn't realize it was still the case. One of the reasons that I'm looking for a really good laptop is that I'd like to be able to fully prepare and publish articles even when I'm away from my office/studio. That means, among other things, that I need to be able to see (on-screen) very small differences in resolution among various lenses. I can do that quite well with a good CRT monitor but with the laptops, I'm finding that this requires a lot of screen res.

 

I often read comments that say, in effect, that one can't judge file quality on screen. Well, that's true in some respects but I'm now more fully understanding this also *strongly* depends on *which* screen one is talking about. <G> Looking at pictures on some of the monitors I've seen recently, its no wonder that some can make neither heads nor tails out of file quality differences. I looked at some very large and expensive flat panel monitors and, based on what I saw, I think I'm going to continue to stick with CRTs in my studio. If I'm going to be able to prep articles fully on a laptop, when I'm away from VT, it looks like I'm going to need WUXGA (1920 x 1200) res. and a 17" screen. I only saw two laptops that gave a display quality I might be able to work with, the Mac 17 with high res. and the 17" Sony AR 590 (which, I realize, includes a screen that is used for other Sony laptops as well). Both computers seem to use the same nVidia 8600 video card.

 

That's not to say that the Mac 15s and some other computers didn't show a very nice monitor images, they did, but they didn't give me enough info. to really see, for example, lens resolution differences. For example, I looked at the F/4 100% crops in the Zeiss 18 article and the differences between the Zeiss and the WATE, on center, were harder to see on the Mac 15 than they should have been. Once I got to the larger WUXGA computers, I could see what was going on.

 

So, again, this has been a really interesting learning process. If anyone here knows how to turn off text smoothing (for all font sizes) on the Macs, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, I'm really leaning towards the Sony. The Macs, by the way, are really beautiful. They look great, their design is simple, ergonomics are good, etc. Many other computers look awkward and over-styled by comparison. But pretty is as pretty does.

 

So, Andy, your one suggestion triggered a lot of exploration.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

In case anyone's interested: ATPM 12.01 - Paradigm: Coping With Mac OS X’s Font Rendering

 

It seems I'm not the first to notice this.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Well...I tried to order a Sony and SonyStyle screwed things up so much that I am loath to give them any business. So I have an unconventional idea and wonder if anyone, with related experience, can advise me. I'm considering getting a 17" Mac and running it as an XP machine. Will it work as well as an actual Windows machine for this? Anything that won't work?

 

Thanks, I'd love to have more advice.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Sandokan]

Have you considered an external screen such as Eizo (Nanao)? A friend just bought the ColorEdge CG241W which he describes as superb with his photos.

[c6gowin]

Sean, I run Windows XP Pro on my MacBook Pro with no problems. Granted, I haven't pushed the envelop on what applications run stable on the Windows side. I only use my accounting software (QuickBooks) and Microsoft Office 2007 (Word, Excel, Access, PowerPoint. I intially set the MBP up with a Boot Camp partition to run Windows and it worked fine. However, I later purchased Parallels to run Windows XP under a virtual machine and it works great. The advantage of Parallels is that it is much easier to swap files from Mac to Windows and vice versa. I find that I spend less and less time in the Windows environment as I become more confident in the Mac side. I would probably be happy ditching Windows all together if I didn't need it for my business (if only there was a Mac version of Microsoft Access). Feel free to contact me offline if you want additional or specific information.

[johnjs]

Well...I tried to order a Sony and SonyStyle screwed things up so much that I am loath to give them any business. So I have an unconventional idea and wonder if anyone, with related experience, can advise me. I'm considering getting a 17" Mac and running it as an XP machine. Will it work as well as an actual Windows machine for this? Anything that won't work?

 

Thanks, I'd love to have more advice.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sorry to hear that, Sean. What happened, if I may ask? Regarding running the MacBook Pro as a Windows machine, I believe I read recently (at MacRumours, I think) that the MacBook Pro running Windows was the fastest notebook running Windows at the moment, albeit slightly. You can either do a dual-boot configuration, running BootCamp, or run Windows as a virtual machine from within OS X, which is a somewhat slower configuration but great for cross-platform work. I think you should still conider the Sony if having both PCMCIA and Express-Card slots in addition to a dedicated SD slot would be useful, as well as the Sony having a built-in TV tuner and Blue-Ray DVD drive. Also, that backlit keyboard on the Mac is very nice. My advice ownig a similar Sony to the one you're considering, and very happy wih it - I'd still get the Mac.

best-John

[sean_reid]

Hi John,

 

I don't really want to go into the details about my latest dissapointments with SonyStyle but this is the second time they've screwed up and so I won't be buying from them in the future. If I do buy a Sony laptop, it will be through a dealer. Blue Ray would be nice but the TV tuner doesn't mean a thing to me. The SD card slot is good as well.

 

I think the Mac is beautiful as an object and I'm curious to try Mac again (just to play with now and again) especially if I can find some way around their awful font smoothing. I'm hearing about a few conflicts here and there (XP on MacBook Pro) but the main limitation (using Boot Camp) is that the computers fans run slower and are not controlled well. So there have been problems with excessive heat although I did hear about a workaround for that.

 

Ironically -- fate -- my main XP editing computer had its first twitch in months this morning. Windows installed some update of itself and when I rebooted I got the dreaded "directory missing" error and I spent two hours sorting that out. As I'm drowning in work right now so that was no fun. So I thought of Mac during those two hours. <G>

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[johnjs]

Sean,

You can easily turn off font smoothing in OS X. SystemPreferences>Appearance>Turn Off Font Smoothing. Not sure if this is the specific issue you were referring to, though. I hadn't heard about the CPU/chassis fan issue when running BootCamp, maybe that pertains to notebooks without Core2Duo processors. Neither of my dual-core machines, this Sony and a recent HP (both 17") seem to even have a fan, or if they do, I've never heard it turn on, even while running heavy apps. My older P4 based notebooks were very loud, in comparison.

best-John