Survey Price Structure

[LocalHero1953]

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5 minutes ago, willeica said:

Paul, you are more or less repeating what I said last week, except that I pitched the 'child' at post grad level🎓. Is there a revised survey and should I do a 'once more into the breach'? Wilson has a saying about not getting 'time back', which may apply here.

William 

Yes, there is a revised survey. I could complete it this time without giving untruthful answers, although the question about brand and price would be a small fraction of the whole truth.

I did the survey to try to be helpful, but.......

Edited February 21, 2023 by LocalHero1953

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[willeica]

11 minutes ago, willeica said:

Paul, you are more or less repeating what I said last week, except that I pitched the 'child' at post grad level🎓. Is there a revised survey and should I do a 'once more into the breach'? Wilson has a saying about not getting 'time back', which may apply here.

William 

Well I've done it. It is slightly improved and the student gets about a C. It responds more to the respondent than the previous price restricted effort, but it still leaves out my saying that I already have an M 6 and I'm happy with the 35mm Summicron that I have. I also cannot say that I have no interest in L mount products of any kind. As a collector, I find the question about how much would you spend on a camera somewhat surreal, as I have bought some for very small sums. I wish them luck with figuring out what the results of the survey mean. I have a strong feeling that I don't belong to the target market.

William 

[jjk]

I didn't like the survey.  I did fill it out.  The biggest problem I had with it is that I have the M10, M10R, SL2, 2 CLs and a good number of lenses.

For the questions on the SL2, do I answer based on getting a second SL2 or as if I was buying the first one.  If I'm answering based on buying a first one, am I supposed to forget everything I know about the camera? ( that for me, it's big and heavy although I love the image quality and ease of focusing the M 90mm and 135mm)

For the questions on the M-6, do I forget that I had the M-4P, M-6, M-6ttl, and M-7?  I left film because with digital, I could process my own images thru Photoshop.  I don't see myself ever going back to the limitations that I found using film (primarily not being able to review the results until the film is processed and changing film every 36 shots).  With that in mind how do answer questions on price?

For the questions on the SL35mm, I hope I'm remembering correctly and they were asking about the first version.  I have the 75 and 35.  I love the 75.  I haven't found the love yet for the 35.  Almost all of my photography is done on the 6 trips we take per year.  I love the image quality of the SL system, but for me it is big and heavy.  That is my biggest problem with the 35mm SL lens.  I've forced myself to take it with, but it is so much easier to walk around with either my 35mm f2 on the M10R (orSL2) or the CL with the 18-56.  Because of all this how do I answer questions on price?  Price isn't the issue.

I've looked at the Q2 for some time.  I've been close to buying one.  What held me back was that I already have the CL with the 18-56 for carrying just one camera.  Usually, I carry the 2Ms, one with a 24 and one with a 50 and no camera bag.  When I can tolerate more weight I bring the SL2 with the SL75 (and the camera bag) and use different lenses on the Ms.  Again price isn't the deciding factor.

I've thought about the M11.  I haven't found that the resolution of what I have isn't more than enough for how I display my images.  What I've needed is more focal length without the extra size and weight of L mount lenses.  I could use better high ISO, low light performance.  What does the M11 give me over using the SL2 for my M 90 and 135?  Is it that much smaller with the added visoflex? Price isn't the determining factor

Edited February 21, 2023 by jjk
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[ken_tanaka]

Count me among those who abandoned that survey.  If the direction of those questions was in earnest I’m glad I already have all the Leica gear I’ll probably need for the rest of my life.

Edited February 21, 2023 by ken_tanaka

[Martin B]

All much too expensive as new Leica gear for me anyway. Still and will continue to use my Leica gear but if I need anything new, it will 100% be used with depreciated price tag. I am certainly not Leica's current customer target group. 

[NigelG]

Started but bailed after a few questions.

I got presented with SL2 questions but I have no interest in it nor do I care or have a view how much it should/does/could cost...WTF?

What possible meaningful information for Leica is there from asking an M user how much they would pay for an SL2? It's worth nothing to me..

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by NigelG

[FrozenInTime]

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The Dutch auction price dropping in the survey highlighted to me just how much Leica is losing it's uniqueness, which equates to how much I'm willing to pay today compared with past years.

In the film days and M9 through M10 and CL, the lenses and bodies provided unmatched performance, size and quality, so spending at Noctilux levels was justifiable.

Now there are outside lens and camera options that exceed my needs, for far less outlay; so not much incentive left to stay onboard Leica's escalating price and performance track. The tipping point for me seems to have coincided with the cancellation of TL/CL. 

[newtoleica]

I’m not the audience for new Leica gear….. 

[thrid]

I used to be Leica's target audience for new gear going on 25 years.

Over the years I have purchased multiple Leica bodies and lenses new, but these days I don't have $30,000 plus laying around for two M11 bodies and a 35/50mm lens combo.

And I'm not exactly a pauper. I have a good job and make a nice living, but $30,000-35,000 for a shooting kit is a little nuts, unless money is no object or you're running a business.

For me the future is looking an awful lot like a flashback to the 1960's. A single used or demo M body with a 35 and the 50 on a Nikon DSLR...

I think I can save Leica a lot of time and effort.

"You make great gear except nobody but the 1% can actually afford to buy it. The vast majority of the past Leica greats would be shooting something else these days, because they would be priced out of the market."

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by thrid