Spot Metering or Exposure Compensation for Theater Lighting?

[Studiopfp]

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Not sure if this is the right forum, but I'm going to be shooting a play on stage next week. I'm going to a rehearsal tomorrow.   If as I expect there is going to be very uneven lighting, with the actors in some kind of a spotlight, I'm wondering how to meter for correct exposure on the subjects? 

Of course, I'll put the camera on Manual, but am wondering if I should spot meter (I don't do this normally) or instead do a full field exposure and then set exposure compensation to be 1 or more stops below normal?  

Since, I'll be using both an M246 and SL2-S with mostly 50mm 1.4 and either a 75mm 1.4 or 90mm 2.0 lenses, with a few wide angles with a 35mm. I realize that getting the correct exposure is going to vary from different focal length.. 

Any tips on technique for this shoot?

Paulo

www.studiopfp.com 

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[Sonnelacht]

From my experience: digital you should expose like you did it in analog times with slide film: Spot metering on the lights and never overexpose. Everything burnt out is gone for ever. But your cameras have a lot of exposure reserve in the dark areas, which you can access in post production, if you really seem to need it. Keep beeing careful: dark areas may strengthen the atmosphere of a picture, especially at scenes from the stage.

And you are you are in the lucky situation to make your special experience through the rehearsal. So don't worry!

[Chuck Albertson]

Is it a tech rehearsal? That should give you a good start on getting the exposure right, as well as any changes in lighting during the play.

[LocalHero1953]

I do a lot of theatre photography (see my website) mainly with the SL2-S, and occasionally with the Q2, or the Sigma fp for video. 

TBH I would find manual metering too slow unless the lighting is very even and unchanging. I set the camera in aperture priority, with AutoISO, and highlight-weighted metering, with exposure compensation as needed, depending on the look of the histogram. This seems to work well most of the time. I use AWB, but if you prefer fixed WB, for modern theatre lighting you could set it at around 4000K. Shooting in raw you can adjust in post anyway. 

I set focus to iAF and face recognition, occasionally switching to Field in complex scenes.

That’s my setup for music and drama. For dance I set shutter priority mode, and manual focus, with back button Field AF.

I’m happy to share any other ideas for theatre/performance photography (and learn from the experience of others).

The SL2-S is the business for theatre photography because of its low light performance and colour.

Most of my production photography is during the dress rehearsal, when I’m allowed on stage, but even so I’m trying to work as fast as possible to avoid disrupting the performance. And speed is necessary if you’re going to catch that fleeting glance or expression. Hence my unwillingness to use manual exposure.

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Studiopfp]

@LocalHero1953Thanks -  I'll have to check my SL2-S manual to see how to set it up the way you describe.  I shoot manual 90% of time normally, but that's for personal stuff where my hit rate is less important.  

I'm trying to get a list of shots/key moments to be prepared for in the play.  You shoot quickly - Do you shoot single or continuous drive mode? I

[Studiopfp]

@Chuck Albertson It's a tech rehearsal - not sure what that is.. guessing where the techs check out lights, sound, etc.. before a full dress rehearsal with wardrobe? 

[Studiopfp]

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@LocalHero1953  Also, where do you come out on the "clinical" vs. "vintage" choice of lenses and what focal length?  I have very sharp 50mm and 95 mm Summicron's and with the SLS-2 can bump the ISO up to shoot stopped down.  But I personally much prefer to use the Summilux 50 and 75 that are Madler lenses and softer, but so good at shallow DOF and separation from the background.  Plus I can now focus effectively with the EVF on the SL2-S.  Of course that's when I'm doing portraits.  Do you have a "money lens"  and focal length of choice for your theater work?

 

 

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, Studiopfp said:

@LocalHero1953  Also, where do you come out on the "clinical" vs. "vintage" choice of lenses and what focal length?  I have very sharp 50mm and 95 mm Summicron's and with the SLS-2 can bump the ISO up to shoot stopped down.  But I personally much prefer to use the Summilux 50 and 75 that are Madler lenses and softer, but so good at shallow DOF and separation from the background.  Plus I can now focus effectively with the EVF on the SL2-S.  Of course that's when I'm doing portraits.  Do you have a "money lens"  and focal length of choice for your theater work?

 

 

Your first question in the previous post: I shoot singly. I've never shot in burst mode for anything. It's as much habit and personal preference than firm reasoning. I have always tried to train my eye, mind and finger to see and capture the correct moment for a photograph, and not just spray and pray. Somehow single shot has seemed to me a higher level of skill. And I do not want to have to sort through multiple shots, deleting most of them in order to find just one. YMMV

My most used lens for theatre is the 24-90SL zoom, and then the 90-280SL zoom when I have to stand off. (If you look at my website, the shots for Persephone were all taken with the 90-280 because they were taken from the back row of the theatre during a performance with audience). I use the Summicron 90SL for headshots for the performance programme, and sometimes the 75SL or 90SL during rehearsals without stage lighting, because the extra speed is useful (and it isolates the character from what can be a messy background in a casual rehearsal space). I have used manual focus lenses (e.g. Summilux-M 75) but my hit rate is not good - people don't hang around stationary long enough for me. You may be faster with manual focus on the SL than me. Snowdon, who introduced small Leicas to theatre photography, of course only had manual focus, but I find M focusing faster that the same lenses on the SL2-S.

All my lenses, other than the Summilux, give what you call a clinical rendering - I just call it sharp, clear and with good colour. As we are shooting for others, not our own benefit, their needs should take priority - if they have an opinion: most theatre photography is of such poor standard that anything a half-competent photographer can do is welcomed (one girl told me, after I had done her headshot in careful lighting "they normally shove me up against a white wall and hold an iphone to my face"). So in the end, the lens type is up to you - I suspect it won't make a difference to those you are doing it for. And, for older actors, good lighting is as important as the lens (IMO) for 'kind' headshots with gentle skin tones and textures. I have a lightweight lighting kit (two light stands, two brollies and two Godox strobes) for headshots.

As to focal length of choice: I like to get as close as possible (it's the drama, expressions and visual dialogue people want to see, less so the scenery), but you have to be at a certain distance for some scenes (the lovers have enough of a challenge acting it out without a guy with a lens in the way, you might inadvertently be murdered in a scene of violence, or run over by the chorus in a musical). I find the 24-90 covers all I want if I can get on stage during the dress rehearsal; I use both ends of that range. The very wide end is useful for low angle shots from the corner of the stage showing the whole scene.

I have been fortunate to have a few friends who let me develop my skills at their early rehearsals (always best once the cast have learned their lines and don't hold the script). One is a composer who writes musicals for school children and another a director of performances of less common and more challenging plays. I now find it very useful (if I have the time) to attend earlier rehearsals to identify the most 'photographable' moments and good angles for them. The cast also react better to you in close proximity at dress rehearsals if you are familiar.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Sonnelacht]

Very helpful hints, LocalHero, but somebody cannot substitute experience only by reading...

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, Studiopfp said:

@Chuck Albertson It's a tech rehearsal - not sure what that is.. guessing where the techs check out lights, sound, etc.. before a full dress rehearsal with wardrobe? 

From practice I have seen, it is as you describe, but with the cast in costume, so they can identify any problems with it. It normally proceeds by stops and starts as they sort out lighting and sound effects. They may not run through the complete play if there are long periods of dialogue with not much action or lighting changes.

[Studiopfp]

@LocalHero1953  Thanks for the comprehensive response... 

I love your theater photography, although to my taste, I do prefer the older, vintage lens rendering. Since I have both older and newer, perhaps I'll shoot with both and see what the company prefers.  I learned photography from my father who, and I have theater images he shot in the 1960's with a IIIF and Plus X or TriX, so my visual preferences were naturally formed at that time.  

I only shoot with burst when doing sports.  But it seems to me that having a "shot list" of critical moments in the play (anger, surprise, etc..) , capturing the actor's expression at precisely the "best" moment might benefit from a burst.  Perhaps I'm overthinking though.. 

Your comment "you have to be at a certain distance for some scenes (the lovers have enough of a challenge acting it out without a guy with a lens in the way, you might inadvertently be murdered in a scene of violence, or run over by the chorus in a musical)."   I don't have any Leica zooms (or SL lenses), but with the versatility of the SL, have an adaptor for my Canon zooms that give me a range from 24 - 200. So depending on where I am able to shoot from, I should probably take the long telephoto, as you seem to have in your shots of Persephone.  

Did not occur to me that I might have an opportunity to do head shots, and I have the same Godox grear you mention, so I might throw that in the back of the car.  Although I recently purchased a RotoLight kit that I hope to use more in the future.  

Finally, after your earlier post, I went out here in New York and did some night street photography of bars, restaurants, etc.. to see how the Highlight Weighted metering works.  Didn't know that was a possibility with the SL... Very useful, although basically doing what I would have done intuitively, so not sure if I want to let the camera make that decision in terms of how much to reduce the ISO.  Since I don't have experience shooting theater, it certainly seems like a good way to get started on an exposure that is certainly better that using a full matrix.  

Also, thank you so much for the reference to Snowdon, whose work I had scene, but didn't know in a theater context.  

This has become the proverbial falling down a rabbit hole, as shooting this production may lead to other theater work here in New York, but I think I will enjoy the process!

Paul 

 

 

 

[LocalHero1953]

Good luck with it, @Studiopfp - I look forward to hearing and seeing how it goes. It would be good to see some results posted here.

[LocalHero1953]

52 minutes ago, Studiopfp said:

This has become the proverbial falling down a rabbit hole, as shooting this production may lead to other theater work here in New York, but I think I will enjoy the process!

 

Here there are 'Cambridge Theatre' and 'Cambridge Theatre Photography' Facebook groups, where I have responded to calls for photographers, and received inquiries after posting my own work there. There must be similar groups in NY.

I am an amateur, but I do this work on the same basis as the amateur actors perform, and why I sing in a local choir - because I enjoy doing it. I ask for payment in comp tickets for the performance (if I want to see it). 

Edited February 19, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Studiopfp]

Thanks for the Facebook suggestions and the link to post images... Will let you know and upload results!

Cheers!

[250swb]

I used to be the photographer for the Crucible Theatre in Sheffield and to be honest if you are photographing a full dress rehearsal make that your set of photographs. It should be the same as the full production and will give you space to move and get closer without an audience in the way, or to block their line of sight. Photographing the actual production is a nightmare and maybe you should mention this to somebody like the director if he wants you to get the best shots and show his play off to the best, but you should be part of the team. I did this so photographs could be circulated to the press and exhibited front of house before the play opened, afterwards you've missed the boat.

A good actor will deal with you moving about in the same way they can block out people coughing, but hold back if you see them stumbling over lines. I used Nikon and Leica film cameras, and metering was done on the actor or scene and anything more difficult than that shots were bracketed half a stop either way. 

[Studiopfp]

Hi All - Thanks for your suggestions. - I shot what was a "tech rehearsal" and it went well.  The Director and actors were very comfortable with my moving around.  I used a 75mm Summilux a lot (shot wide open), to get good separation of the actors from the foreground and background, and then did about 3/4 crop in post. I never would have been able to focus quickly or accurately with my M series Leica's, but with the SL2-S it was easy.  However,  I needed a 200mm on my Canon to get a good head shots.   

The Auto White Balance didn't work too well, everything had a blue tinge, but I was able to correct in post. I didn't use a color card before starting to shoot.

Will go back to do the full dress rehearsal tonight. 

A question - Do you get model releases from the actors or the theater company if you post your work on your website?  

Here is a link to the shots from the "tech rehearsal."  Feedback appreciated!

https://studiopfp.smugmug.com/Projects-2022/Bachelorette-The-Play

Password - Terra 

Cheers,

Paul in USA

 

 

[Studiopfp]

Oh, and by the way - the background in the theater was this awful yellow/beige, so I converted a lot of the images to B&W to try and neutralize the "muddy" look of the background. 

 

 

[LocalHero1953]

43 minutes ago, Studiopfp said:

A question - Do you get model releases from the actors or the theater company if you post your work on your website?  

 

I have never done so for adults from dress rehearsal or actual performance. I have done so for young people, and, occasionally, for earlier rehearsals. I don't use many early rehearsal shots in my own social media or website. My shots are mainly done for the production company or theatre, so I leave the theatre company to deal with their own cast.

I have a simple exchange of emails with the company at the outset, to reach a mutual understanding: I retain copyright ownership, giving them and the cast a licence to use the images for any purposes connected with the production and venue. They are not to sell them or allow them to be sold. This is obviously not a formal contract, but avoids misunderstandings between parties who more or less trust each other. I also say I will not publish images from rehearsals that could be sensitive or embarrassing, without their permission.

 

I enjoyed your photos - it looks a fun piece to photograph!

Edited February 21, 2023 by LocalHero1953

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[Studiopfp]

@LocalHero1953

Thanks for the suggestion.  I think an email exchange would be a good way to handle the issue of use, releases.. Having something in writing, as I don't know the individual actors, etc..  

I didn't know if I should post a link to the photos as you suggested in an earlier email?  Would like to get some feedback.. 90% are Leica, but not all.

 

[LocalHero1953]

23 minutes ago, Studiopfp said:

@LocalHero1953

Thanks for the suggestion.  I think an email exchange would be a good way to handle the issue of use, releases.. Having something in writing, as I don't know the individual actors, etc..  

I didn't know if I should post a link to the photos as you suggested in an earlier email?  Would like to get some feedback.. 90% are Leica, but not all.

 

I don't see a problem with you posting images or a link to them, unless you have been asked not to. I tend to do so at the end of the production run, though sometimes my posts on social media are just to help  the advance publicity campaign, with the agreement of the team.

I liked your photos, and I don't want to tell anyone else how to develop their own style (and I'm still learning new ways of doing such things). I'm sure you notice that some of them are out of focus, which I find distracting given that the rest are typically sharp on the eyes. I like most of your photos show action or dialogue or emotion. The worst shots one sees are of one or more actors all standing there, perfectly composed, with mouths shut and no expression!

Edited February 21, 2023 by LocalHero1953