chris_livsey Posted October 28, 2007 Share #1 Posted October 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) http://www.pdnpulse.com/2007/10/microsoft-and-p.html Hard to see exactly where this is going but the last paragraph reads like the Digital Back and SLR (including M8) software may take different paths. There are those using Macs who will see this as a "bad thing" on principle. One to watch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 Hi chris_livsey, Take a look here Phase and Microsoft alliance (Mac users be afraid). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jay101 Posted October 28, 2007 Share #2 Posted October 28, 2007 There are those using Macs who will see this as a "bad thing" on principle MS took over iViewMedia Pro, renamed it MS Expression and continue to support it for the Mac platform. Recently they announced Mac Office 2008 - me thinks they're not as anti Mac as some want to think. I quite like Office and Expression on my Powerbook so I'm relaxed about this news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted October 28, 2007 Share #3 Posted October 28, 2007 I'm afraid they will immediately start incorporating al kinds of things like Messenger into a product. Such 'bundling' gives me shivers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_S Posted October 28, 2007 Share #4 Posted October 28, 2007 One to watch. Thanks ChrisL for bringing this up. You can find the same announcement on Phase One's site, BTW. One to watch but not be scared about (Mac users). Where businesses join for an strategic alliance, they basically acknowledge a shared interest and expect a mutual benefit. This includes a mutual competitor as well. In short, Microsoft want a larger footprint in the world in (semi) professsional photographers like Apple at the OS level and like Adobe at the application level. Phase One is successful in data backs, not aligned with any camera brand (maybe Mamiya), but lags behind with their software development. Microsoft could be interested in better and expanded native raw support in Windows like Apple maintains in OS X. Applications - whether from Microsoft or third parties - could directly benefit, like Apple's Preview, Finder, iPhoto and Aperture. Phase One could benefit from MS' experience as a software maker in programming and marketing. This way Phase One can keep up with both Apple's Aperture and Adobe's Lightroom. Further integration of MS Expression Media (former iView Media Pro) and Capture One is necessary for both to survive. Phase One is an interesting partner for Microsoft as one of the larger independent players in the imaging business, with thorough understanding of the hardware-raw-RGB translation of images (a.k.a. raw workflow). I think this is a very interesting move, one to watch for sure, with great anticipation. We, photographers, could benefit (both Mac and Windows). Anti Mac sentiments from Microsofts side are thing of the past (and I am talking decades here). Just my 2cts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 28, 2007 Share #5 Posted October 28, 2007 Well with the new Mac intel boxes makes that Mac Vs PC thing a huge thing of the past since you can run both platforms on the same box. really just a matter of software if you flip the switch to one or the other for the end user Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 28, 2007 Share #6 Posted October 28, 2007 Well with the new Mac intel boxes makes that Mac Vs PC thing a huge thing of the past since you can run both platforms on the same box. really just a matter of software if you flip the switch to one or the other for the end user Slippery slope to "We don't need to develop for the Mac platform at all", there, Guy. But with nearly 10% of the new computer market, and growing fast, they ignore the Mac market at their peril. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted October 28, 2007 Share #7 Posted October 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well with the new Mac intel boxes makes that Mac Vs PC thing a huge thing of the past since you can run both platforms on the same box. really just a matter of software if you flip the switch to one or the other for the end user Good Luck Guy, I still prefer OSX :-))) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted October 28, 2007 Share #8 Posted October 28, 2007 MS took over iViewMedia Pro, renamed it MS Expression and continue to support it for the Mac platform Hmm... I was an (PC-version) Iview Media pro afficionado untill the takeover was announced. It took MS almost a year to rewrite the code and no update to speak of came out in the mean time. Nevertheless Iview answered emails and took the fact that Leica M8 DNG was not supported into consideration. Then Expression Media came out with absolutely nothing really new in it and the only way to communicate that then remained was via a dodgy forum. No answers to emails. At that time Light room had come out and supported LM8DNG. I bought it, deinstalled Expression M, and never looked back. Light room 1.1. answered the few remaining peeves I had with it in comparison to EM. A shame a good product was put cold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 28, 2007 Share #9 Posted October 28, 2007 But with nearly 10% of the new computer market, and growing fast, they ignore the Mac market at their peril. I just saw in an article today that Apple now has 20% of all non-business new computer sales, so among people like us, the trend is even stronger. We once had a poll here, and I don't recall exactly, but something like 75-80% used Macs. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/11794-poll-mac-pc.html I would guess that this is similar in all visual and creative fields. The Mac seems to do better with such apps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay101 Posted October 29, 2007 Share #10 Posted October 29, 2007 At that time Light room had come out and supported LM8DNG. I bought it, deinstalled Expression M, and never looked back. Light room 1.1. answered the few remaining peeves I had with it in comparison to EM. Do agree LR is a great app and I also find myself using Expression less and less as a result, but I put that down to Adobe product doing more of what I wanted than MS playing havoc with Mac apps. I dived into Aperture when it came out but feel the interface, normally an Apple strong point, is quite weak compared to LR - but that's another story Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken R Posted October 29, 2007 Share #11 Posted October 29, 2007 Phase One has been loosing ground fast in the digital back market after being a leader for many years. Their software development has also been slipping. I for one think this is the start of a much faster downward spiral for the company. To bad really, but the times they are a changing. If three years ago anyone had said Leica would have a killer M digital camera in the market, most people would have said - no way. The same can be said of a Phase One/Microsoft alliance. But in the case of Microsoft and Phase One, I think this is more a move of desperation. Phase One needs the cash and Microsoft needs to catch up with Apple and Adobe. Too little to late for both of them in my humble opinion. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 29, 2007 Share #12 Posted October 29, 2007 Phase One has been losing ground fast in the digital back market after being a leader for many years. Their software development has also been slipping. I think this is a key point and reason for the alliance from Phase One's point of view. Phase One is way behind their promised release dates of version 4 for their C1 Pro software even after outlining many of its perported new features some time ago. It seems to me that they must be having some kind of significant problem with it. Meanwhile others including DxO, Apple, Adobe, ACDSEE, and Canon are adding features and improving their raw processing. I still use C1 for tethered capture and sorting but rarely process a file in it. The Iview Media Pro situation brings up another concern. You really need DAM software to stick around and be updated for many years so that you can continue to use it on your old files and with new camera file formats as they come out. I learned this the hard way when I started with Cumulus many years ago. They didn't update the software so now I can't see thumbnails or previews for files made with new cameras. This forced me to switch to a new system that I hope I can use for a while. I haven't gone through all of the trouble to organize my old Cumulus images into the new system so now I have to look in two places when searching for shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSee Posted October 29, 2007 Share #13 Posted October 29, 2007 PhaseOne is a brand, and branded into most workflows. It's not the best, but most widely accepted as best. Here comes M$(because Apple is determined to reinvent the wheel to push its hardware!), "Hello, you may know that we are wealthy and you are poor, but let's have lunch... vegan OK?" This kind of software-app BS is 40 years old, be glad the M8 records DNG(a TIFF variant, despite another Corp designed format from Adobe)... and /that's/ what makes PO attractive to M$... anti-Adobe, dude. If you like your Apples, better stick with their trees, bra. Great images do not come from PhaseOne, but you! And all of this from a fella you'd have to pay gobs to use either OS and related bloatware! rgds, Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 29, 2007 Share #14 Posted October 29, 2007 I would be very sorry to see an end to C1. I have tried various other RAW converters, Lightroom, Lightzone, Aperture, ACR and others. For ease and flexibility plus its brilliant "works all by itself" batch processing, I don't think C1 can currently be beaten. I even prefer 3.7.7 to the new 4.0. It will be interesting to see how they all work when I install Leopard this afternoon. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 29, 2007 Share #15 Posted October 29, 2007 I suspect that until recently, most Hasselblad H cameras were paired with Phase One backs, but now that Hasselblad has gone proprietary, Phase One is losing their business fast. Does anyone have more info to substantiate this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodda Posted October 29, 2007 Share #16 Posted October 29, 2007 Expression is full of new bugs and I have gone back to the old Iview (Pro 3). Why do they ruin all applications. I have gone for Lightroom having used iview for many years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmSummicron Posted October 29, 2007 Share #17 Posted October 29, 2007 i tend to agree with the direction of your statement, mainly because a) the Hasselblad/Imacon merger/buyout makes them a MUCH bigger company than PhaseOne. Hasselblad is more or less the only medium format company left that's doing any real sales with their H system (yes mamiya is trying to push the 645AF as the competitor, and Rollei has their new system but i just don't see them as being able to compete) c) a good reason to go with something OTHER than an Imacon back is for multi MF camera use etc: buying a back so you can use a Hasselblad 501, a Mamiya RZ, etc. However this option is sort of tedious because compatability across mount vs. cameras is limited and you likely have to go through sync cables which has its own set of problems such as misfires/slow capture rates (the Hassey H and Mamiya 645AFD both sync to the back electronically--no cables!) d) PhaseOne spent A LOT of time developing their C1 software because they realized a few years ago that they had the best RAW processor image quality wise so they opened up the software to process Canon, Nikon, Fuji etc. files. Fast forward to present day and there are A LOT of processors out now that are quite good. C1 needs to up the bar FAST! I suspect that until recently, most Hasselblad H cameras were paired with Phase One backs, but now that Hasselblad has gone proprietary, Phase One is losing their business fast. Does anyone have more info to substantiate this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrycioni Posted October 29, 2007 Share #18 Posted October 29, 2007 Well with the new Mac intel boxes makes that Mac Vs PC thing a huge thing of the past since you can run both platforms on the same box. really just a matter of software if you flip the switch to one or the other for the end user Bang on Guy. I just installed OSX 10.5 (Leopard) on my workstation (Intel Mac). Using the provided Apple Boot Camp assistant I then installed MS Vista on a <small> partition and low and behold - all the drivers needed for Vista or XP to run on the Mac are on the Leopard install DVD as delivered from Apple. No searching the net, etc to make this work. MS has another OEM machine to sell Vista or XP too.... I don't think MS is going to do anything to mess with that. Best Regards. Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 29, 2007 Share #19 Posted October 29, 2007 Terri there is also fusion software that is supposed to be good. Glad leopard is working for you . I have a blue screen issue on my MacPro which I am trying to solve but my MPB is working great. Just a little bug I am trying to solve it takes a little bit to boot up but looks like every photo program is working good. I need to install Adobe Indesign and hoping that will work but CS3 , LR, Quark and all the heavy programs seem to be working. But let me add , every time I go into a Apple store be it Phoenix, Florida , New York and others around the country I have visited there jammed packed with folks buying Macs. i think the numbers are off myself with the Intel boxes folks are doing exactly what you are doing in very large numbers and there are many avoiding Vista and will run on Mac with Windows XP which is at least stable. Now were is my stock broker. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnalex141r Posted October 29, 2007 Share #20 Posted October 29, 2007 Fast forward to present day and there are A LOT of processors out now that are quite good. C1 needs to up the bar FAST! I could not get a C1 key when I purchased my factory "demo" M8; Phase One customer support gave me the brush off. I'll admit that 2 minutes work googling gave me some better and/or cheaper alternatives for my OSX usage. IMHO, Phase One and Microsoft? Who cares? both are companies whose star is fading... and they know it. Again, IMHO, I'm not out to create arguments; just to point out that as a mac user (and open source software creator), I could not care less. JohnS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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