sdai Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share #61 Â Posted October 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) You might think Leica should do this or that. I can't say you or others are wrong. I used to write and market software for slide labeling and stock photo management. I thought everyone would buy a copy once they saw it. I was wrong. It is easy to get enthusiast about an idea but it is much harder to develop a competitive product, make a good business plan, and carry it out. Â It's really all about fun with friends, what Leica will/can/want to do is a whole different matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Hi sdai, Take a look here A Very Smart Move for Leica ? or ! ... :). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mjh Posted October 30, 2007 Share #62  Posted October 30, 2007 If you umount the H3D2 back and adapt it to an Alpa or any other things, all the fancy stuff incl. Ultra Focus and DAC are lost. That’s exactly Hasselblad’s point: for best results, you shouldn’t mix and match bodies and backs from different vendors. But if you really need a view camera, you can still use the back of the H3DII for that. So you get both: an integrated DSLR and a versatile digital back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted October 30, 2007 Share #63 Â Posted October 30, 2007 This is all wild speculation. Who knows what they are really doing. Leica management have suggested in interviews ambitious plans for the new R. I hope they do something that makes a big splash and I hope its closer to $5K then $10K. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted October 30, 2007 Share #64 Â Posted October 30, 2007 I'd add one final point. Up until now there has not been a lot of innovative thinking with DSLR's. We have the equivalent of installing an automobile engine into a horse cart. Rumors of Nikon and Leica doing something really different are encouraging. Maybe we will finally see some designed for digital outside the box thinking that leaves the film paradigm behind. One can only hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 30, 2007 Share #65 Â Posted October 30, 2007 How many backs do you think Phase One could sell in a year? and they're hiring that many people sitting in the office at the cost of 5 digit or 6 digit paycheque per head count, hanging around showing their products, burning advertising dollars on almost every mainstream photography magazines and sponsor trade shows worldwide. Â Man, there's a lot of money to make in the business ... digital camera is a high margin product. Â Do you know something that they don't know at Phase One, Leaf (Kodak), Megavision and Sinar (Jenoptik)? I'm sure it is a much tougher nut to crack than you think. (You'd think that Kodak would be in a good position since they make sensors and own Leaf. But the Leaf backs use Dalsa sensors so this gives no advantage to Kodak.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 30, 2007 Share #66 Â Posted October 30, 2007 I'd add one final point. Up until now there has not been a lot of innovative thinking with DSLR's. We have the equivalent of installing an automobile engine into a horse cart. Rumors of Nikon and Leica doing something really different are encouraging. Maybe we will finally see some designed for digital outside the box thinking that leaves the film paradigm behind. One can only hope. Â That could be fine but I think the gear that is available right now is pretty amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share #67 Â Posted October 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Do you know something that they don't know at Phase One, Leaf (Kodak), Megavision and Sinar (Jenoptik)? I'm sure it is a much tougher nut to crack than you think. (You'd think that Kodak would be in a good position since they make sensors and own Leaf. But the Leaf backs use Dalsa sensors so this gives no advantage to Kodak.) Â I'm sure I don't know more than they do about themselves, but I can guess from the serial numbers of the H3D and all these fancy digital backs, the last time I saw one it's in the 3 digit range, so how much money are they making from each unit to float their spending habit? that's not difficult math. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share #68  Posted October 30, 2007 That’s exactly Hasselblad’s point: for best results, you shouldn’t mix and match bodies and backs from different vendors.  That's what I'm thinking too, Michael ... so I brought up Phase One, Leaf and Leica. We don't have any disagreement on this one, do we? ... it's hard to track each person's idea in such intense crossfire. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 30, 2007 Share #69 Â Posted October 30, 2007 What about R users in all that, i mean people used to pay $3k for a R9? Do you think they would be prepared to pay $8k -10k for a bit larger than 24x36 digicam? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share #70 Â Posted October 30, 2007 What about R users in all that, i mean people used to pay $3k for a R9? Do you think they would be prepared to pay $8k -10k for a bit larger than 24x36 digicam? Â So how did Leica manage to sell all 5000 units of DMRs then? a R9+DMR is more than a 1Ds3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 30, 2007 Share #71 Â Posted October 30, 2007 Well i guess it makes sense for other people than me Simon. Looks like i'll have to sell my newly acquired R lenses then... Oh well, at least i will use them a bit more with film before i purchase a D3 or other 'affordable' nikanopus monster... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 30, 2007 Share #72 Â Posted October 30, 2007 So how did Leica manage to sell all 5000 units of DMRs then? a R9+DMR is more than a 1Ds3. Â That was then and this is now. Â A Canon 5D with 24-105 lens is only $3000. By next summer, Canon will probably have a replacement for the 5D which will be better. The Nikon D3 and D300 look good too. Then there is Sony... Prices will have to come down even on the 1DsIII if Nikon makes a competing model or sales slump for any reason. Do you really think the larger sensor adds $3500 to the cost difference between the 1DIII and the 1DsIII? Â It is a moving target. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share #73 Â Posted October 30, 2007 Well i guess it makes sense for other people than me Simon. Â Your idea may be completely changed if the M9 is commanding a price between 6k-8k but, my gut feel is a full frame M rangefinder may cost more than that ... :p;) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share #74 Â Posted October 30, 2007 That was then and this is now. Â A Canon 5D with 24-105 lens is only $3000. By next summer, Canon will probably have a replacement for the 5D which will be better. ... Â It is a moving target. Â This should apply to Leica as well ... I think it's a global trend affecting the whole semiconductor industry, if Canon could cut their cost there's no good reason why Kodak can't follow suit. Â The beauty of digital is ... they're all computers! Why should a German-American computer be more expensive than a Japanese computer? German labor may be more expensive but, this darn thing is no longer delicate handcraft, you could hire high school graduates just to put things together like Lego pieces. Â How much effort would be involved in assembling a personal computer? Â This is only my humble .02 anyways, Leica may find more than a thousand good reasons to justify the prices. Â Do I like to pay 8k for a camera? ... never, I wish some could give me one for free. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 30, 2007 Share #75 Â Posted October 30, 2007 $8k -10k for the R10, $6k-8k for the M9... you must have won the lottery Simon my friend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 30, 2007 Share #76  Posted October 30, 2007 Why should a German-American computer be more expensive than a Japanese computer? German labor may be more expensive but, this darn thing is no longer delicate handcraft, you could hire high school graduates just to put things together like Lego pieces.   I had the same thought years ago when I bought a Polaroid back for my Rollei 6006 for $660. It was just a cheap plastic thing that you'd find on the back of a $30 Polaroid camera. It had a little plastic adapter added to fit the camera and a dark slide. The simple threaded knob that attaches a camera to one of my Linhof tripod heads cost $55 some years ago.  I once bought a Linhof replacement spirit level for my view camera. This was just a cheap basic vial in a piece of plastic. It was $35. At my local hardware store, I paid less for a 2 foot long mahogany and brass level that had several curved vials. Why do you think Linhof doesn't sell many tipods or other items for that matter? They used to be the pre-eminent large format company but now almost nobody has heard of them.  Leica just isn't set up to build a "reasonably" priced camera or lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/36688-a-very-smart-move-for-leica-or/?do=findComment&comment=389528'>More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share #77 Â Posted October 30, 2007 $8k -10k for the R10, $6k-8k for the M9... you must have won the lottery Simon my friend. Â An APS size M8 is already at $5495. Do you think a FF M9 will do much better? ... and many on this board buy 2 or 3. Â If I could win for just one time, then a lot of folks here are able to hit the jackpot twice or trice then. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share #78 Â Posted October 30, 2007 I once bought a Linhof replacement spirit level for my view camera. This was just a cheap basic vial in a piece of plastic. It was $35. ...Leica just isn't set up to build a "reasonably" priced camera or lens. Â But, even then bubble levels are electronic now ( check the D3 and GRD2 ... ) LOL Â I agree that they're not set up to build reasonably priced "conventional" cameras or lenses. This should come to an end or at least greatly improved now ... what do they need to actually build anyways? Â DSP, sensor, PCB, power supply, all come from third parties. The one single most significant work they can not avoid is programming, and make things working "together". Â Now it's really like wholesale business to them instead of a custom tailor shop, the more you buy/sell, the lower your cost and the higher your profit margin would be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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