Leica SL lens sharpness in comparison with Hasselblad XCD lenses

[STurner]

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PLEASE NOTE - For best results, either click on the image or download it to see it in the proper resolution.  When you just view it in the frame of the text it doesn't give you a very accurate representation of the sharpness.

[huwm]

Thanks ST, that's a lot of work!

Shame the sigma 1.2 is so big, I think for 35 I'll compromise and stick with the 1.4

[BernardC]

It should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway: you are testing how well these lenses do at copying flat art that is slightly smaller than A4 ("letter size" in the US). That's fine, as long as it's what you intended to test.

You will probably get different results at middle distances (6-10ft, 1.8-3m), and again at infinity. Mixed lighting will also provide different results, because the lenses flare differently.

I find that mixed-lighting tests are most relevant to me, because they tell me which lenses will work well together. That's why I keep a set of vintage lenses and a set of modern lenses: they render scenes differently, and I rarely mix both renderings in the same project.

[STurner]

BernardC - I understand your point, and it is a valid one to a degree, but if you look at my original post, you will find that the board I photographed is 36"x48".  So it is a little bigger than A4.  🙂

As I mentioned in a previous post, I agree that photographing multiple distances is the most scientific, however, short of photographing the test in an auditorium or gym, this was the most logical point for me to start from.

I also photographed all of theses lenses outside in real world situations comparing them with images taken from close focus limits out to infinity and in-between.  I found that the test chart images generally  corresponded with what I saw in real world images as well.  The biggest differences seen in the real world images again, was the CA found in the Sigma and Panasonic that wasn't in the Leica.

I'll be the first to admit that my tests weren't perfect, however they did help me make better informed decisions on which lenses I would keep in my kit than if I had just read some reviews on the internet.

[BernardC]

1 minute ago, STurner said:

BernardC - I understand your point, and it is a valid one to a degree, but if you look at my original post, you will find that the board I photographed is 36"x48".  So it is a little bigger than A4.  🙂

Inflation! The dollar has grown a lot since I was last in the US...

[STurner]

LOL!  As the notation shows - the images are center crops and corner crops of the board.

[thatkatmat]

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Thank you for these and for taking the time to do these..."Scientific" or not it's a good illustration of how these lenses perform and I, for one, appreciate it as I was looking at all these options not too long ago.

It seems to me that the IQ follows the $ and the size. I went for the "worst and smallest of the 3" from your post. The Sigma f2 and am very happy...So, pretty much whichever you choose will be high quality. Nice to have so many choices.

[STurner]

thatkatmat - in addition to my Leica lenses, I own several of the Sigma f2 lenses and for a lighter walk around setup that you don't worry about they work really well.

I wouldn't say you went for the worst.  In my view the Sigma f2 lenses outperform the Panasonic 1.8 lenses for photography.  There are advantages that the Panasonic lenses have for video, but it's pretty clear the difference for photography.  Also, it depends on your final display medium how much difference will see between the Leica and Sigma lenses.  I think they are a great bang for the buck.

I'm really curious to test the new Leica 35 and 50 to see how they compare to the f2 Sigma's.

[Chris Nebard]

36 minutes ago, STurner said:

thatkatmat - in addition to my Leica lenses, I own several of the Sigma f2 lenses and for a lighter walk around setup that you don't worry about they work really well.

I wouldn't say you went for the worst.  In my view the Sigma f2 lenses outperform the Panasonic 1.8 lenses for photography.  There are advantages that the Panasonic lenses have for video, but it's pretty clear the difference for photography.  Also, it depends on your final display medium how much difference will see between the Leica and Sigma lenses.  I think they are a great bang for the buck.

I'm really curious to test the new Leica 35 and 50 to see how they compare to the f2 Sigma's.

I love using the Sigma 35 f2. On the SL2-s it’s a great lens for weddings, documentary, street work, travel etc. Your comment regarding “final display medium” is very well made. 

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[Virob]

Thanks for sharing. I have come to the realization that I dislike testing lenses and I am also not very good at it! It is a lot of work to do it right and I am glad when others do it for me.  I also have the Sigma 35/2 and enjoy the lens, and plan on keeping it for some time.

I also have the Sigma 65/2 and this week got the Leica 75/2. My first Leica SL APO lens. I have been "curious" for awhile, and decided I needed to see for myself, so when a deal deal showed up, I took the chance. The 65/2 is an excellent lens. The 75/2 is better. This is most noticeable at f2.0. Stopping the 65/2, down 2-3 stops brings sharpness levels up to the 75/2 wide open. More noticeable is amount of chromatic aberrations between the  65/2 and  75/2 wide open. Stopping down the 65/2 removes much of this, the 75/2 really doesn't have much of any to begin with. 

If you live for f2.0 then the 75/2 might be the right lens for you>

Realistically, while yes, the 75/2 is measurably better in terms of sharpness and color aberrations, I really need to look closely even wide open. I think for 95+ % of the time any difference would be unnoticeable or masked due to my non-perfect technique.

I have been impressed with the overall images coming out of the 75/2 but haven't directly compared overall rendering, color etc to the 65/2, so reserve final judgement and looking forward to spending more time with it.  It is noticeably bigger and heavier, but both feel good on the camera. Honestly, I think anyone would be pleased with either one.

Here is an image from the first hour with the 75APO, shooting everything at f2.0. I do like the rendering although there are 2 odd reflections upper middle of the image.

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[jankap]

20 hours ago, huwm said:

Shame the sigma 1.2 is so big, I think for 35 I'll compromise and stick with the 1.4

Also too big, I assume?

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[huwm]

1 hour ago, jankap said:

Also too big, I assume?

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It looks fabulous, for a characterful fast 50mm I use a Canon 50mm f1.4 LTM which feels perfect on the SL2

[Jim B]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:20 PM, STurner said:

As you can see, the XCD lenses hold up very well even against the very best SL prime lens available.  There are pluses and minuses with each lens and each system but I believe they both have their place.

There’s another post that shows the chromatic aberration of the xcd lens compared to the Apo. If I remember correctly they were showing the chrome detail of an automobile. 
 

[Jim B]

12 hours ago, Virob said:

Thanks for sharing. I have come to the realization that I dislike testing lenses and I am also not very good at it! It is a lot of work to do it right and I am glad when others do it for me.  I also have the Sigma 35/2 and enjoy the lens, and plan on keeping it for some time.

I also have the Sigma 65/2 and this week got the Leica 75/2. My first Leica SL APO lens. I have been "curious" for awhile, and decided I needed to see for myself, so when a deal deal showed up, I took the chance. The 65/2 is an excellent lens. The 75/2 is better. This is most noticeable at f2.0. Stopping the 65/2, down 2-3 stops brings sharpness levels up to the 75/2 wide open. More noticeable is amount of chromatic aberrations between the  65/2 and  75/2 wide open. Stopping down the 65/2 removes much of this, the 75/2 really doesn't have much of any to begin with. 

If you live for f2.0 then the 75/2 might be the right lens for you>

Realistically, while yes, the 75/2 is measurably better in terms of sharpness and color aberrations, I really need to look closely even wide open. I think for 95+ % of the time any difference would be unnoticeable or masked due to my non-perfect technique.

I have been impressed with the overall images coming out of the 75/2 but haven't directly compared overall rendering, color etc to the 65/2, so reserve final judgement and looking forward to spending more time with it.  It is noticeably bigger and heavier, but both feel good on the camera. Honestly, I think anyone would be pleased with either one.

Here is an image from the first hour with the 75APO, shooting everything at f2.0. I do like the rendering although there are 2 odd reflections upper middle of the image.

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I really think this image illustrates the strength of the SLapo primes. Even with my 90 Apo, I get images where the 3 dimensionally at the focus point just jumps off the page. In comparison I find most other brands lacking in this area.

Take a look at my shots, and sorry I’ve posted this before… but those blackberries look like you could take them right off the page just as your does too.

 

[STurner]

5 hours ago, Jim B said:

I really think this image illustrates the strength of the SLapo primes. Even with my 90 Apo, I get images where the 3 dimensionally at the focus point just jumps off the page. In comparison I find most other brands lacking in this area.

Take a look at my shots, and sorry I’ve posted this before… but those blackberries look like you could take them right off the page just as your does too.

 

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Was this photographed at f2?

[Jim B]

On 2/15/2023 at 3:18 PM, STurner said:

Was this photographed at f2?

Yes

[jrp]

What's the actionable takeaway?

[Chaemono]

The XCD 80/1.9 fringes a lot wide open compared to the 50 Summilux-SL at the borders of extreme highlights and shadows. The Hassy combo shines for portraits, landscapes with the lens stopped down and B&W photography with the lens wide open. It would be interesting to compare the X1D/X2D with the XCD 80/1.9 vs the M10M with the APO 50. I bet all the XCD lenses fringe like hell wide open.

Some test shots XCD 80/1.9 vs. 50 Summilux-SL https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-s7N2tR/i-BpP6CDd/A

[Chaemono]

Am 15.2.2023 um 15:22 schrieb Jim B:

I really think this image illustrates the strength of the SLapo primes. Even with my 90 Apo, I get images where the 3 dimensionally at the focus point just jumps off the page. In comparison I find most other brands lacking in this area.

Take a look at my shots, and sorry I’ve posted this before… but those blackberries look like you could take them right off the page just as your does too.

 

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And the OOF areas are so clean at the borders of highlights and shadows. Probably software corrected but who cares. One doesn’t have to fiddle around in LR to try to remove CA/PF and mess up the rest of the colors. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Stuart Richardson]

20 hours ago, jrp said:

What's the actionable takeaway?

Most L mount lenses are excellent, and extremely good in comparison to lenses even 5 to 10 years old. The XCD lenses are a great balance of performance and size for those who want a cropped medium format mirrorless camera with an appealing design and leaf shutters. The APO Summicrons are still the sharpest edge to edge at wide apertures, and have the purest color and most freedom from aberration of the current crop of high quality lenses. You pay for that performance with a size, weight and price penalty as compared to the less expensive, less extreme lens designs, such as those from Sigma and Panasonic.