Monochrom’ers also M colour?

[Nimar]

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Somewhat amusing twist of fate. I ended up getting a used m10-R because it was a good deal and a tiny voice in my head said there might be some value in taking colour photos for others (family etc), even though for my personal use I prefer B/W.  Can always convert and if I truly hate it can swap for an m10-m without a big loss. 

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[olegn]

On 2/12/2023 at 8:48 PM, Nimar said:

I’ve exclusively shot B/W for the last 15 years. I’ve a q2m (that I’m trying to sell) and an m10-m. Prior to that I shot b/w film and converted colour photos from phone into B/w (had it defaulted to B/w). 
 

From some other comments it seemed some own both a m10-R and m10-M or similar combo. If so how do you choose which to use?

I’m on the hunt for a second used body and am leaning towards another m10-m so I can have a back up but also to carry two lenses at times. Having a colour body might be useful for some niche uses but I fear I’d always be frustrated with it and if carrying both would just use whatever lens was on the monochrom. 
 

Part of my love of B/w and Lecias is having fewer options, having a colour camera would introduce too much complexity in my mind. 

Btw why are you selling q2m? What's wrong with it for you? (Asking because I'm curious to try this camera.)

answering your question - MD 262 could be interesting and challenging option. (And it's my personal set - M10M and MD 262.) I bought MD to have some color option but moreover it has that simplicity and limitation which we love in monochroms. So it could carry your lenses and sometimes you can have fun shooting with it (only if IQ is not necessary for you).

[Nimar]

3 hours ago, olegn said:

Btw why are you selling q2m? What's wrong with it for you? (Asking because I'm curious to try this camera.)

answering your question - MD 262 could be interesting and challenging option. (And it's my personal set - M10M and MD 262.) I bought MD to have some color option but moreover it has that simplicity and limitation which we love in monochroms. So it could carry your lenses and sometimes you can have fun shooting with it (only if IQ is not necessary for you).

Re Q2-M it’s a fantastic sensor / lens combo, it takes great photos. I just don’t like using an EVF / manual focus with peaking. 
 

I know this is the norm but it’s my first experience and didn’t jell with it. Much prefer an OVF/rangefinder.

camera is listed on FredMirinda if you want it at a bargain. 

[Jon Warwick]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:41 PM, fededuran said:

But I have never tried any camera like the M10M. I'd go so far as to say that it has a quality that is almost impossible to replicate in any other digital camera: it is without a doubt the sensor that most reminds me of analog photography.

 

I fully agree with that. On my side, the M10M has been my favorite digital ever, basically due to those exact same reasons your mention.

I'm not sure every one sees a difference in rendering from the Monochroms vs color filter array sensors, but in my case I see the difference very obviously.  I'm from a film background (up to 5x4 large format), and perhaps because of that any "digital" artefacts (however subtle) stick out quickly to me, but I find it much more challenging to see any such issues with the purity of capture from a Monochrom sensor.  For context, I've also owned digital color Ms and SL2, + still use a GFX100S.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Jon Warwick

[fededuran]

58 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

I fully agree with that. On my side, the M10M has been my favorite digital ever, basically due to those exact same reasons your mention.

I'm not sure every one sees a difference in rendering from the Monochroms vs color filter array sensors, but in my case I see the difference very obviously.  I'm from a film background (up to 5x4 large format), and perhaps because of that any "digital" artefacts (however subtle) stick out quickly to me, but I find it much more challenging to see any such issues with the purity of capture from a Monochrom sensor.  For context, I've also owned digital color Ms and SL2, + still use a GFX100S.

I also own a GFX100S and its quality is very high in terms of pure digital output, but not close to that analog vibe we were talking about. I hope the new M11M will keep that same M10M rendering. 

Of course sometimes I think of getting a good second hand M10M, but I don't hate (at all) my M11 and my issues are some freezes from time to time that don't ruin the experience. Let's see what Leica puts on the table with the M11M. I think it will be out before the summer. If there's no gain to the former generation, I'll go for the M10M. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by fededuran

[Jeff S]

58 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

I fully agree with that. On my side, the M10M has been my favorite digital ever, basically due to those exact same reasons your mention.

I'm not sure every one sees a difference in rendering from the Monochroms vs color filter array sensors, but in my case I see the difference very obviously.  I'm from a film background (up to 5x4 large format), and perhaps because of that any "digital" artefacts (however subtle) stick out quickly to me, but I find it much more challenging to see any such issues with the purity of capture from a Monochrom sensor.  For context, I've also owned digital color Ms and SL2, + still use a GFX100S.

Myriad workflow variables, from camera to displayed print, make such a conclusion less clear for me.  My film background dates to 1974, with four personal darkrooms along the way, and formats up to 4x5 (and a short period with 8x10).  I also collect vintage silver prints (including from various well known photographers/printers), so I recognize the qualities of a fine silver print.  I now shoot with the M10M, M10-R and SL2, and still occasionally use my MM1.  
 

I’ve always made prints, but small by today’s standards, and rarely at high enough ISO to cause stress. And I’ve made both mediocre and stellar b&w pics and prints from every camera I’ve owned… film or digital, monochrome or color-based. There are countless variables involved, at every stage of the process, not the least of which involve me and Mother Nature. The Monochroms can often produce superb results, but at times I’m appreciative of having the capability to add tonal nuance to a print by subtly using color channels in post… just one of many important small variables.  If a print doesn’t ‘sing’ for me, it’s almost always my fault, not any defects or artifacts caused by the gear.  But I also don’t make controlled A/B comparisons when shooting, only perhaps when initially testing gear for purchase decisions. After that, I just go about producing work.
 

For me, the Monochrom most importantly offers a different shooting experience and mindset. But all of of my current gear is capable of producing superb files, under the right conditions, which allow me to produce worthy pics/prints… or not.  

Jeff

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Jeff S

[Herr Barnack]

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On 2/12/2023 at 11:48 AM, Nimar said:

I’ve exclusively shot B/W for the last 15 years. I’ve a q2m (that I’m trying to sell) and an m10-m. Prior to that I shot b/w film and converted colour photos from phone into B/w (had it defaulted to B/w). 
 

From some other comments it seemed some own both a m10-R and m10-M or similar combo. If so how do you choose which to use?

I’m on the hunt for a second used body and am leaning towards another m10-m so I can have a back up but also to carry two lenses at times. Having a colour body might be useful for some niche uses but I fear I’d always be frustrated with it and if carrying both would just use whatever lens was on the monochrom. 
 

Part of my love of B/w and Lecias is having fewer options, having a colour camera would introduce too much complexity in my mind. 

I have an M10M, Q2 and an M-P 240.  Whether I shoot in B&W with the M10M or in color with one of my other cameras depends mainly on the subject matter and what I want to accomplish in photographing the subject. 

Lighting comes into play, too.  If I know beforehand that the lighting will be abysmal, I will usually shoot with the M10M.  Not always, but sometimes. 

Sometimes I will just want to shoot in B&W for the day so I will take the M10M.  Some days I will just want to shoot in color, so I will take one of the other cameras instead.

I am thinking of adhering to shooting with the M10M for a few months - but when spring flowers finally begin to bloom, I will want to shoot those in color so I will.

In the end, it seems that I can't bring myself to "quit" either B&W or color.  Some may scoff at my lack of commitment to one or the other, but IMHO it gives me flexibility and versatility.  I can't see how having choices is a bad thing.

Ultimately, I think anything that can be photographed in B&W can be photographed in color, and vice versa.  Depending on the subject matter, the images can have more visual impact in B&W or in color, depending on a number of variables. 

Sebastião Salgado always photographed in B&W.  Steve McCurry always photographed in color.  I never heard anyone moaning that Afghan Girl should have been shot in B&W and I never heard anyone complain that Salgado's rainforest images should have been shot in color.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Herr Barnack

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Sebastião Salgado always photographed in B&W.  Steve McCurry always photographed in color. 

Wrong.  Salgado worked for magazines that only published color.  He shot lots of it.  But he now considers himself a black and white photographer.  McCurry likewise shot black and white, specifically in conflict zones, which are shown on his website (e.g., Afghanistan, 1979).

Jeff

[rpsawin]

M10M is my primary camera and I have a M10R for my color work. For me its an ideal solution and I am very pleased with both.

Best luck.

[kkochheiser]

7 hours ago, rpsawin said:

M10M is my primary camera and I have a M10R for my color work. For me its an ideal solution and I am very pleased with both.

Best luck.

Exactly my situation.  If an M11M and M11P come out, then I may need to rethink, but honestly, why?

 

Kent

[pgh]

On 2/15/2023 at 2:18 PM, Nimar said:

Somewhat amusing twist of fate. I ended up getting a used m10-R because it was a good deal and a tiny voice in my head said there might be some value in taking colour photos for others (family etc), even though for my personal use I prefer B/W.  Can always convert and if I truly hate it can swap for an m10-m without a big loss. 

I've owned an m10 since release and shot color for almost my entire life with a camera (20 yrs now) but in the last year plus have only used it for bw work, which eventually convinced me to pick up an M10-M. 

I will absolutely keep my M10 for a few reasons - it's a great camera that works, when I do photos for others or for non project work the color is useful as you say, and it's nice to have the color channels to edit monochrom images, though now with the M10-M I am working to get away from that as it's not an option. If I could swap it for an M10-R I would but it's no real big deal for my uses now that I've got the M10-M for project work. Also, I do like the color out of the box from my M10 more than any other digital I've owned. It's not for everyone, and it's not entirely accurate (nothing is) but for me it's just right. Just don't get seduced by color as primary subject matter - it almost always (I said almost...) means the rest of the image fails - and the image itself won't come close to the real thing. For instance, who would rather see a photo of a rainbow than a real rainbow? But with mono work - things are transformed in a way that eludes direct comparison and then the image can be seen more just for the photograph that it is, instead of an attempting at reproducing something in the world.  

Edited April 5, 2023 by pgh

[RexGig0]

An example of preferring color images is now, in the springtime, with flowers, and the new leaves on the various trees, with the widely differing shades of green. At such times, colors really matter. My M10 can capture those colors, where my M Type 246 Monochrom could only capture black, grays, and white.

My wife and I are both serious nature photographers. She is involved in citizen scientist and environmental activities. Color images are necessary. So, I do not have the luxury of going full-immersion into “thinking in black & white,” long-term. (I normally use DSLR equipment, for the nature/bird/wildlife/forensic/evidentiary images.) 

Another way to consider this, is that I normally use colored filters, when shooting monochrome images, with the M 246. Using an M10 can be seen as opting to use the Bayer filter. 😉

Edited April 12, 2023 by RexGig0