The market effect of the new M6

[logan2z]

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Things definitely seemed to have slowed down re: used Leica film camera sales - at least here in the US.  When I was in the market for an M3, I frequently looked at Tamarkin's site and used M film cameras didn't last long there.  Today, there's a list of in-stock cameras as long as my arm and many of them have been there for months.

http://www.tamarkin.com/products/m-series/cameras#used-section

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[lmans]

True prices high.....  I was just looking at X2's....now, they are nice camera's but are they worth what is being offered for them? So the point is, many Leica's and not just the M6 are a bit overpriced, as are used cars, food, binoculars...etc etc....  

Will they ever come down or are doomed forever in this overpriced market where Leica is making record profits, the oil companies are making record profits etc etc... all because there was/is inflation and now all companies are jacking up prices, just because they can.

Edited February 12, 2023 by lmans

[Huss]

8 hours ago, Al Brown said:

It is the good folks from US of A seeing only US prices and generalizing them all over the world as a rule.

Pretty sure we will let you buy one from the US if you want.

[Steve Ricoh]

18 hours ago, Al Brown said:

It is the good folks from US of A seeing only US prices and generalizing them all over the world as a rule.

Probably because their economy has more clout than most countries, if not all.

PS Is this any use? 😉

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/

[Huss]

That new old stock M6 Titanium had zero bids at $3200, auction has now ended.

 

 

[Fotoklaus]

Leica placed itself as a luxury brand on the market. This works quite well and has an effect on the old film-Ms and Optics.

Few years ago a good M6 was about 700- 1000 Euro (1000 was the absolute peak), depending on age, condition, box/papers, and so on. The prices where quite stable

over many years. M4-2 and M5 where the least desirable, often sold for less then 500 Euros.

Prices have doubled or even tripled the last three years, absolutely overpriced in my opinion.

 

[colint544]

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In 2016, I had a bit of spare cash, and wanted to buy a kind of 'forever' Leica M. Like, a really really nice one. I already had an M5 and a well-worn M2, but I wanted a very nice example of the classic M.

Red Dot Cameras at the time, had a near mint black chrome M4 for £1600. They also had a nice black paint M4 for - I think - a bit more, maybe closer to £2000. I went for the black chrome one because it matched my 50mm Summilux ASPH black chrome lens. Plus it was cheaper.

The rest is history. A mint black chrome M4 now goes for around £4K, but the M4 black paint prices have gone absolutely stratospheric. Into five figures. It's wild.

[Huss]

The hardest part about the BP M4 is proving it really is a genuine BP.  The serial #s seem all over the place, and many are repainted chrome ones.

[colint544]

9 minutes ago, Huss said:

The hardest part about the BP M4 is proving it really is a genuine BP.  The serial #s seem all over the place, and many are repainted chrome ones.

Very true, and especially over the past few years, since BP M2/3/4 cameras have become so expensive that people are taking the trouble to fake them. I think, in the case of the BP M4 at Red Dot Camera, back in 2016, it likely was a genuine one. They're very reputable at Red Dot, and if there is any doubt about provenance, they're up front about it.

Back in 2016, you could still get a used M6 for well under £1000, and an M2 or M5 was around £500. Could anyone have predicted how the prices would rocket?

Hope you get your M6 fixed very soon.

[johnwolf]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:01 PM, logan2z said:

Things definitely seemed to have slowed down re: used Leica film camera sales - at least here in the US.  When I was in the market for an M3, I frequently looked at Tamarkin's site and used M film cameras didn't last long there.  Today, there's a list of in-stock cameras as long as my arm and many of them have been there for months.

http://www.tamarkin.com/products/m-series/cameras#used-section

I follow Tamarkin's used inventory, since I live nearby. You're right; a couple months ago his M6 Classics were consistently above $3K. I often consider selling mine. Hope the bottom doesn't fall out before I decide. 

He still seems to be open by appointment only. Is that right? I'm not in the market, but I'd love to stop in just to browse all those used goodies. 

John  

[Huss]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:05 AM, johnwolf said:

I follow Tamarkin's used inventory, since I live nearby. You're right; a couple months ago his M6 Classics were consistently above $3K. I often consider selling mine. Hope the bottom doesn't fall out before I decide. 

He still seems to be open by appointment only. Is that right? I'm not in the market, but I'd love to stop in just to browse all those used goodies. 

John  

For fun, next time you're there ask him to show you how to load your M6.

[Mikep996]

Just did an eBay search for m6 sales (worldwide) prices for cameras in good condition.  Prices varied from around 2500USD to around 3500 USD. TTLs were generally in the upper half of the price range, originals in the lower half.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Mikep996

[Huss]

24 minutes ago, Mikep996 said:

Just did an eBay search for m6 sales (worldwide) prices for cameras in good condition.  Prices varied from around 2500USD to around 3500 USD. TTLs were generally in the upper half of the price range, originals in the lower half.

There are about five right now on fredmiranda, all under $3K.  A really nice M6 with MP finder for $2500.  That is a huge upgrade for that camera.

[rossawilson1]

When the new M6 came out I never noticed much of a correction in prices, most Leica users know there's a wait for the new model to be available then another wait to actually get yours from wherever you are in the cue. Personally I have found the Leica dealers in London to be good folks, I bought a 75mm F2 for a great price new because they were selling based on what they bought it in at which was a while back rather than the new price. I also noticed there's some really keen prices on nearly new Leica's in the shops. Actual bargains. EBay is a different beast though, prices are still high but the list of cameras is long and growing. I think Leica sellers for the most part aren't in a rush to sell, they also know there's a wait for the new M6, but even so there is some wishful thinking out there and much better deals in actual stores that they can't have noticed. I think we're past peak used M6, the new model to some might make the used ones actually less desirable purely because a lot of people like the exclusivity of using something that only exists as an old product. Anyway I suspect the prices will come down if the supply continues to grow.

[Huss]

I just think it is because the buzz on the original M6 has died down.  Tnose youtubers pushing it as the greatest camera ever, now are saying the new one is the greatest camera ever.  And in their minds (and sponsorships..) of course it is!  It is the previous greatest camera ever, but now better!

as for ebay pricing?  It’s always all over the place and the sellers try to lean on each other to push the prices up.  Look, everyone wants $3500 for a beater M6!
As an anecdote, I recently bought a Nikon N80.  Awesome camera, works perfect.  On ebay I paid $20 including shipping for it.  For this exact same camera, there are lots of sellers asking $60 and higher.  Those just sit.

That M6 on fredmiranda just sold for $2500.  After 2weeks.  Not only was it in perfect condition, but it had the MP finder upgrade.

[mshchem]

I just checked the "Titanium" m6 new in box is still for sale $3150, Setadel studios. 

On 2/12/2023 at 12:01 PM, raizans said:

I can’t find it on their website! Help: https://www.setadelstudios.com/collections/leica-cameras

It's just a different finish, not actual Titanium. It's got Ostrich covering.

No thanks 

[intangiblethings]

There’s been a big aesthetically movement around Y2K so now an impressionable demo is now moving on from film.

Lots of people are now forgoing film cameras (cheaper ones/P&S as well) for old 2000s digital cams to get that look (just like film was a look for them before).

The rising cost of film certainly plays some role as well.

I don’t see any singular event as the reason behind the change in Leica prices, it’s a bunch of factors that sum up to a general macro trend.

[dpitt]

On 2/12/2023 at 7:18 PM, Anbaric said:

If the market has fallen, nobody seems to have told the UK dealers. Prices are in the £2200-£3000 range, averaging about £2700, pretty much where they've been for many months, or a bit higher. One outlier on ebay though - either someone got a crazy bargain (an auction finished at under £1200), or there's something more dubious going on.

The same here. Still crazy prices for M6s. If anything, I think people are now convinced that getting i.e. the same M6 (classic) for half the price of a new one is a bargain. I would rather buy a used MP or M7 but 20+ year old M6s are almost as expensive now.

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Hallo,

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[Gregm61]

On 2/11/2023 at 6:32 PM, Huss said:

Let’s forget for a moment any issues that a few people have reported…What I have noticed is that since the new 2022 M6 has been released, it has cooled off the market for the old one.  I now see lots of really nice old M6 at the $2500 price point, including the titanium ones.

Still got a LONG way to go before/if they ever, get back down to the $1,000 I paid for a really nice condition, mid-80's vintage M6 back in 2018, but unfortunately sold since.

Super-glad I held onto a sweet-running M4.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Gregm61

[Huss]

2 hours ago, Gregm61 said:

Still got a LONG way to go before/if they ever, get back down to the $1,000 I paid for a really nice condition, mid-80's vintage M6 back in 2018, but unfortunately sold since.

Super-glad I held onto a sweet-running M4.

I bought my 3xxxx serial # M7 for $1500 at about that time too.